Text of Printed Hearing
The Committee on Energy and Commerce
W.J. "Billy" Tauzin, Chairman

Capacity Swaps by Global Crossing and Qwest: Sham Transactions Designed to Boost Revenues?
Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations
September 24, 2002
10:00 AM
2123 Rayburn House Office Building


<DOC>
[107th Congress House Hearings]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access]
[DOCID: f:81961.wais]


 
CAPACITY SWAPS BY GLOBAL CROSSING AND QWEST: SHAM TRANSACTIONS DESIGNED 
                           TO BOOST REVENUES?
=======================================================================


                                HEARINGS

                               before the

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                      OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATIONS

                                 of the

                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                      ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                    SEPTEMBER 24 and OCTOBER 1, 2002

                               __________

                           Serial No. 107-129

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce








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                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE

               W.J. ``BILLY'' TAUZIN, Louisiana, Chairman

MICHAEL BILIRAKIS, Florida           JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan
JOE BARTON, Texas                    HENRY A. WAXMAN, California
FRED UPTON, Michigan                 EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
CLIFF STEARNS, Florida               RALPH M. HALL, Texas
PAUL E. GILLMOR, Ohio                RICK BOUCHER, Virginia
JAMES C. GREENWOOD, Pennsylvania     EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York
CHRISTOPHER COX, California          FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey
NATHAN DEAL, Georgia                 SHERROD BROWN, Ohio
RICHARD BURR, North Carolina         BART GORDON, Tennessee
ED WHITFIELD, Kentucky               PETER DEUTSCH, Florida
GREG GANSKE, Iowa                    BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois
CHARLIE NORWOOD, Georgia             ANNA G. ESHOO, California
BARBARA CUBIN, Wyoming               BART STUPAK, Michigan
JOHN SHIMKUS, Illinois               ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
HEATHER WILSON, New Mexico           TOM SAWYER, Ohio
JOHN B. SHADEGG, Arizona             ALBERT R. WYNN, Maryland
CHARLES ``CHIP'' PICKERING,          GENE GREEN, Texas
Mississippi                          KAREN McCARTHY, Missouri
VITO FOSSELLA, New York              TED STRICKLAND, Ohio
ROY BLUNT, Missouri                  DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado
TOM DAVIS, Virginia                  THOMAS M. BARRETT, Wisconsin
ED BRYANT, Tennessee                 BILL LUTHER, Minnesota
ROBERT L. EHRLICH, Jr., Maryland     LOIS CAPPS, California
STEVE BUYER, Indiana                 MICHAEL F. DOYLE, Pennsylvania
GEORGE RADANOVICH, California        CHRISTOPHER JOHN, Louisiana
CHARLES F. BASS, New Hampshire       JANE HARMAN, California
JOSEPH R. PITTS, Pennsylvania
MARY BONO, California
GREG WALDEN, Oregon
LEE TERRY, Nebraska
ERNIE FLETCHER, Kentucky

                  David V. Marventano, Staff Director
                   James D. Barnette, General Counsel
      Reid P.F. Stuntz, Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel

                                 ______

              Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations

               JAMES C. GREENWOOD, Pennsylvania, Chairman

MICHAEL BILIRAKIS, Florida           PETER DEUTSCH, Florida
CLIFF STEARNS, Florida               BART STUPAK, Michigan
PAUL E. GILLMOR, Ohio                TED STRICKLAND, Ohio
RICHARD BURR, North Carolina         DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado
ED WHITFIELD, Kentucky               CHRISTOPHER JOHN, Louisiana
  Vice Chairman                      BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois
CHARLES F. BASS, New Hampshire       JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan,
ERNIE FLETCHER, Kentucky               (Ex Officio)
W.J. ``BILLY'' TAUZIN, Louisiana
  (Ex Officio)

                                  (ii)











                            C O N T E N T S

                               __________
                                                                   Page

Hearings held:
    September 24, 2002...........................................     1
    October 1, 2002..............................................   365
Testimony of:
    Armstrong, Jackie, Counsel, Global Crossing, Ltd.; Robin 
      Wright, former Vice President of Carrier Sales, Global 
      Crossing, Ltd; Greg Casey, former Executive Vice President 
      of Wholesale Markets, Qwest Communications International 
      Inc.; Susan Chase, Vice President of International 
      Wholesale Markets, Qwest Communications International Inc.; 
      Kym Smiley, former Director of Strategic Negotiations, 
      Qwest Communications International, Inc....................    65
    Crumpler, Lenette, Frontier, a Citizens Company..............   501
    Floyd, Ken, Director of Sales in North America, Flag Telecom.    67
    Hellman, Peter S., Chairman of the Audit Committee, Qwest 
      Communications International Inc...........................   599
    Joggerst, Patrick, former President of Carrier Sales, Global 
      Crossing, Ltd..............................................    14
    Mohebbi, Afshin, President and Chief Operating Officer, Qwest 
      Communications International Inc...........................   592
    Nacchio, Joseph P., former Chairman and Chief Executive 
      Officer, Qwest Communications International Inc............   588
    Olofson, Roy L., former Vice President of Finance, Global 
      Crossing, Ltd..............................................    15
    Shaffer, Oren G., Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, 
      Qwest Communications International Inc.....................   595
    Smith, Paula M., Consultant and former Qwest Employee........   506
    Szeliga, Robin, Executive Vice President, Qwest 
      Communications International, Inc..........................    20
    Winnick, Gary, Chairman of the Board of Directors, Global 
      Crossing Ltd.; Jim Gorton, former General Counsel, Global 
      Crossing Ltd.; Dan Cohrs, Chief Financial Officer, Global 
      Crossing Ltd.; Joe Perrone, Executive Vice President of 
      Finance, Global Crossing Ltd.; and David Walsh, former 
      President and Chief Operating Officer, Global Crossing Ltd.   520

                                 (iii)












CAPACITY SWAPS BY GLOBAL CROSSING AND QWEST: SHAM TRANSACTIONS DESIGNED 
                           TO BOOST REVENUES?

                              ----------                              


                      TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 24, 2002

                  House of Representatives,
                  Committee on Energy and Commerce,
              Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in 
room 2123, Rayburn House Office Building, James C. Greenwood 
(chairman) presiding.
    Members present: Representatives Greenwood, Stearns, 
Gillmor, Burr, Whitfield, Bass, Tauzin (ex officio), Deutsch, 
Stupak, Strickland, and DeGette.
    Staff present: Jennifer Safavian, majority counsel; Casey 
Hemard, majority counsel; Ann Washington, majority professional 
staff; Kelli Andrews, majority counsel; Tom Dilenge, majority 
counsel; Mark Paoletta, majority counsel; Brendan Williams, 
legislative clerk; Edith Holleman, minority counsel; and Nicole 
Kenner, minority research assistant.
    Mr. Greenwood. Good morning. We welcome our witnesses and 
we welcome our guests. The Chair will recognize himself for the 
purpose of making an opening statement.
    Good morning and welcome to the Subcommittee on Oversight 
and Investigations' first day of hearings on a series of highly 
questionable business transactions involving the Global 
Crossing and Qwest Corporations. In particular, this committee 
is interested in what are referred to in the telecommunications 
industry as ``reciprocal fiber optic capacity transactions,'' 
more commonly known as capacity swaps.
    Ideally, in a globally competitive marketplace, the ability 
of one telecommunications firm to purchase capacity from 
another improves market efficiency and shareholder value by 
eliminating network bottlenecks and reducing redundancies. In 
such cases, a firm that is experiencing increased demand on its 
own network can use such a purchase to meet increased customer 
demand. If on the other hand the telecommunications firm 
purchases increased capacity in a market of shrinking demand, 
that raises serious questions about the underlying rationale 
for such a purpose and in cases where two firms engage in a 
capacity swap in which both firms are confronting shrinking 
markets, that raises further questions as to the business 
motives behind these transactions.
    It is this variety of dubious transactions in which both 
Global Crossing and Qwest engaged that we will examine in the 
course of our hearings. Were these capacity swap transactions 
undertaken to do new business opportunities or were they merely 
designed to provide the appearance of expanding business and 
growing revenues?
    Evidence uncovered by this committee's investigation 
suggests that the latter is true. Confronted with shrinking 
markets and declining business volume, executives at Global 
Crossing and Qwest used capacity swaps to conceal slowing 
growth by booking fictitious revenue.
    The importance of these swaps to the financial image these 
firms were seeking to create becomes clear as we examine the 
details. Global Crossing reported $720 million in cash revenues 
from the sale portion of these capacity swaps in the first and 
second quarters of 2001 alone. At the same time, we have 
acquired Global Crossing documents that suggest a significant 
portion of these transactions were constructed solely to meet 
the company's publicly announced revenue targets. The documents 
suggest that it was less important to the executives 
authorizing these swaps what capacity was actually being 
purchased by Global Crossing as was the perceived need for 
consummating the transaction itself and booking the revenues.
    Documents also suggest that the amount of capacity to be 
purchased and sold in these swaps was remarkably fluid, 
allowing dollar values that could be set as necessary to bridge 
the gap in the firm's ability to meet a particular quarters 
revenue numbers. It was not the value of the transactions 
themselves, but rather the urgency to complete them by the end 
of certain quarters that drove the deals.
    As further evidence of the strategy, we have e-mails 
showing that the sales team was the driving force behind these 
deals, while the network people, those who would know whether 
or not such capacity was needed, questioned the rationale for 
many of these purchases. Moreover, Global Crossing apparently 
continued to engage in these questionable transactions even 
while an internal review was underway to determine how to 
dispose of excess capacity acquired through previous swaps.
    This review subsequently revealed that Global Crossing 
lacked sufficient working capital to incorporate roughly $1 
billion of the purchase capacity into its network. In the end, 
this overextension cost the company dearly as it was forced to 
try to find buyers of this excess capacity for pennies on the 
dollar.
    Global Crossing filed for bankruptcy on January 28, 2002, 
the fourth largest bankruptcy in United States history. As a 
result, its investors, average American families, lost $54 
billion and nearly 10,000 employees lost their jobs.
    As for Qwest, the company reported revenues of more than $1 
billion from network capacity sales in 2001. But as it turned 
out, more than two thirds of those sales were swaps in which 
Qwest simultaneously purchased similar amounts of capacity from 
its purchasers.
    Moreover, documents and interviews make plain that the 
company strategy was to book up front as much revenue from 
these swaps as possible, even though Global Crossing and others 
in the industry generally booked such revenue gradually over 
the life of these long-term contracts.
    To recognize revenue from these swaps up front, the deals 
had to meet certain accounting criteria, such as the inability 
of the purchaser to freely alter the capacity route at a later 
time, which made it harder to get other companies to agree to 
such purchases from Qwest.
    What we've learned in our investigation is that in an 
apparent attempt to circumvent these and other accounting 
criteria, Qwest executives and employees entered into side 
agreements with transaction partners to permit the purchaser 
route flexibility while keeping the finance and accounting 
personnel in the dark.
    We also have discovered that Global Crossing personnel 
agreed to structure these swaps with Qwest in such a manner as 
to permit immediate revenue recognition by Qwest so long as 
Global Crossing received oral promises that the contracts' 
terms would not be enforced.
    Just this past Sunday night, Qwest announced that it was 
going to restate approximately $950 million in revenue that it 
recognized from capacity swaps between June 30, 2000 and the 
end of 2001. These are the very swaps that have been the 
subject of our investigation and investigations by other 
Federal authorities.
    While we do not yet know the specific findings that led to 
this restatement, all Qwest has said so far is that its 
policies and practices did not support the company's prior 
accounting treatment for these swaps. We believe their 
restatements eliminate the significance of the problems we have 
identified.
    Although Global Crossing utilized different formal 
accounting methods for its swaps, its pro forma financial 
reporting which included virtually the full value of the sale 
side of the swaps in its cash revenue and earnings numbers can 
also be said to have misled investors and there are questions 
as well as to whether the Securities and Exchange Commission 
and the Financial Accounting Standards Board were sufficiently 
proactive in dealing with the important issues arising from the 
increased use of such swaps throughout the industry.
    We will seek to address these vital issues more in depth 
during the second day of our hearings into these transactions 
next week.
    Like many other telecommunications firms in the late 1990's 
and the first 2 years of this century, Global Crossing and 
Qwest were confronted with a declining market for their 
products and a glut in telecommunications capacity. By now, 
this has become a familiar, if disturbing story. In the go-go 
1990's when irrational exuberance of the marketplace dictated 
that stocks only increase in value, meeting Wall Street's 
expectations, came to be seen as the paramount duty of all too 
many corporate executives. But that cannot justify what these 
firms seem to have attempted with these swaps any more than the 
bizarre partnerships at Enron, with the ginned up books at 
WorldCom. In every case, these short term efforts at hiding the 
true facts only serve to dreadfully distort the stock market's 
ability to efficiently allocate resources, the critical genius 
of our economy.
    This number obsessed atmosphere also placed employees of 
these companies in untenuous positions. At today's hearing we 
will hear from some of those current and former employees from 
both companies. They have come forward to help us understand 
these transactions in more detail and to grasp the importance 
of these swaps in meeting Wall Street's expectations.
    Some also will describe their concerns with these swaps and 
the efforts they took to raise red flags within the companies.
    Our second day of hearings will allow us to ask the high 
ranking, current and former executives at these companies about 
the legitimacy of the swaps, the impact these swaps had on 
their financial reporting and what, if any, steps they have 
taken to avoid similar situations in the future.
    I welcome all of our witnesses today and I will now 
recognize the ranking member, Mr. Deutsch, for his opening 
statement.
    Mr. Deutsch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 
holding this very important hearing. It has been 10 months 
since this committee began investigating a string of corporate 
scandals ranging from last year's collapse of Enron to the 
admission of WorldCom that it improperly booked $3.9 billion in 
expenses as capital costs.
    Since then, we have seen the demise of other companies, 
Tyco, Delphi and these companies have unfolded because of 
questionable accounting and misuse of funds by top officers.
    A new sense of responsibility and fear has entered into 
corporate suites and board rooms across America. These scandals 
have been devastating not only to employees, retirees and 
shareholders, but to our Nation's economy. Congress must work 
to reverse this trend of corporate malfeasance until ultimately 
all publicly traded corporations recognize that their duty is 
to all of their shareholders, not just to chief executives and 
other top insiders.
    Today, this committee will be hearing testimony on two 
telecommunications companies where in an effort to keep the 
stock prices high, the chief executives imposed unrealistic 
revenue goals on their sales staffs at the same time the 
industry was facing a glut of fiber optic resources and a sharp 
drop in prices.
    In order to meet these goals, Global Crossing, Qwest and 
others engaged in swaps of fiber optic capacity under which 
each claimed revenues through creative accounting techniques. 
In Sunday's announcement of a $1 billion plus restatement, 
Qwest placed the blame on its accounting firm. What was left 
unsaid, however, is the reason that we're all here today, that 
Qwest and these other companies knowingly entered into many 
deals which they knew had no real business purpose except to 
recognize revenue.
    This committee has reviewed dozens of e-mails in which 
sales staff openly admitted that these deals were for revenue 
recognition. As early as June 2000, Robin Wright of Global 
Crossing wrote to David Walsh, Global president, that her 
``biggest concern about Qwest is buying something we don't 
really need to trade for the revenue.'' This desperate attempt 
to meet the numbers probably reached its lowest point when some 
of the Qwest sales staff made undisclosed oral and written 
representation to several companies' sales staffs that would 
have allowed the portability of the assets that were allegedly 
sold.
    Neither the accountants nor the internal orders were told 
of these agreements. One such agreement was essential to 
sealing a $109 million year end deal which sent from the 
computer of Qwest president, although he claims no knowledge of 
the message and everyone else denies sending it. Although the 
existence of this e-mail has been known for almost a year, the 
company inexplicably has not yet finished its investigation of 
who sent it, how it was sent or even taken affidavits from the 
involved employees. These side agreements, had they been known 
to Qwest accountants would have completely changed the 
accounting and reduced Qwest's revenue by hundreds of millions 
of dollars.
    At Global Crossing, employees tried to carry out two 
opposing directives. The network engineers had been ordered to 
reduce the amount of capital expenditures while the sales 
people were spending it on whatever deals that they could, just 
to book revenue. The culmination of the unraveling of the 
situation is when Global did not know whether or not Qwest was 
trying to sell something that it already had bought.
    Mr. Chairman, the people who will testify today did not set 
out to disrupt the lives of fellow employees, retirees and 
shareholders. However, most made no attempt to step these 
unethical and possibly fraudulent deals.
    As we learned from Enron, Global Crossing and Delphi, Qwest 
and others, corporate abuses demand real solution. It is my 
hope that these hearings will provide the insight needed to 
restore the public's face in their investments. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Mr. Greenwood. The Chair thanks the gentleman from Florida 
and recognizes the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Tauzin 
for an opening statement.
    Chairman Tauzin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and let me extend 
my warm appreciation again to you, Mr. Deutsch, and to Ranking 
Member Dingell for the extraordinary cooperation and assistance 
in the continuing bipartisan committee investigations into 
corporate responsibility failures. We could not do our work 
without that spirit of bipartisanship and the agreement not to 
politicize these hearings. And again, I want to extend to you 
publicly our compliments, our thanks because Chairman Greenwood 
and I are deeply appreciative that we've been able to make such 
progress because of that. Thank you.
    When we set out to get to the bottom of Enron's financial 
collapse back in November last year, we said we'd pursue the 
facts wherever they might lead. And we did so with the kind of 
stubborn determination that eventually showed the public how 
the deceptive and greedy actions of a few executives could 
bring whole companies down to their knees, destroy employee 
futures, families and bring financial devastation to honest and 
hard working employees and most notably to the whole structure 
by which investors invest in public companies.
    I'm sad to say this threat of greed and deceit in the 
executive suite and the board room seems to have run through 
other once high flying companies as well. The hearing beginning 
this morning will shine a light on the activities of two well-
known telcom firms, Global Crossing and Qwest. And I'm 
disappointed to say the evidence amassed by the committee and 
our joint investigative team raises once again some very 
troublesome questions about the behavior of certain individuals 
entrusted with making the right decisions for a company, its 
employees and for its real owners, the investing community of 
America, the pension funds and the individual investors who 
believe these companies are on the up and up.
    What we have before us today are transactions involving the 
exchange of long-term leases, so-called swaps of fiber optic 
capacity, otherwise known as IRUs, indefeasible rights of use 
that appear to derive from quite the same deceptive impulses 
that drove a handful of Enron executives to destroy that 
company.
    Enron executives' central deception was to engage in 
transactions that were designed to push the debt of that 
company off the books, to hide it from the Wall Street 
investment community, the rest of us who were investing in 
Enron and indeed to give a false picture of the company's 
financial position, all in an effort to prop up its stock 
price.
    Well, today we'll hear a similar set of efforts to deceive 
Wall Street and the American investing community. In this case 
we have evidence that Global Crossing and Qwest executives 
received sham transactions to put revenue on the books, to 
mislead investors and to prevent further drops in their stock 
prices. Interestingly, just last week, Mr. Chairman, Qwest 
announced a $1.4 billion rewrite of its income indicating the 
dimensions of this fraud.
    I think it's important to put it in layman's terms, what we 
discovered here. There is a legitimate thing called an IRU, a 
swap of capacity and there's a legitimate accounting treatment 
of it. If it's real capacity, if it's really swapped, and it 
really occurs and it's specific capacity that's being swapped, 
accountants are allowed to treat that as a capital lease, in 
effect, almost a sale, an account for income, either 
immediately over the term of the capital lease.
    But if there's portability in the deal, if the capacity is 
not really specified, if you can move it around, if it can be 
other places and other times, if there's portability, there's 
flexibility in that deal, generally speaking, that's not a real 
capital lease. That's an operating lease. And what we 
discovered with documents indicating side agreements, side 
agreements that redefined the nature of these swaps conducted 
between Qwest and Global Crossing and some other companies, 
notably FLAG Communications, Cable and Wireless, as well as 
Global Crossing, side agreements which if known to the 
accountants would have led them to believe that there was 
misaccounting going on, that these agreements were not really 
capital leases and should not have produced income on the 
company's books.
    Even worse, Mr. Chairman, we discovered documents 
indicating oral agreements. Now Qwest will deny it, but we have 
documents from FLAG and from Cable and Wireless and Global 
Communications indicating oral agreements, the winks and the 
nods, that these swaps were not really the kind of swaps that 
could be treated as capital leases; the winks and the nods, 
side agreements, either written or oral, that indicated these 
companies were engaged in deception and fraud to try to make it 
look like the company was making money when it really wasn't, 
to put income on the books that didn't exist and to tell 
investors a false story about the progress of these companies.
    We'll also hear a la Enron of employees who tried to warn 
the higher ups that certain deals were inappropriate, who 
worried about wearing orange and black and white stripes, who 
worried about the fact that these deals wouldn't stand the 
light of day, that if the light ever shown on them, folks would 
know that they were fraudulent and deceptive, and yet those 
warnings were ignored.
    Witnesses before us were well aware of the transactions 
under scrutiny today and I'm sure we'll have some dispute about 
what were legitimate business transactions and what were 
basically deceptive ones, but what is undoubtedly clear is that 
we have a case where people within the company thought they 
were deceptive, tried to warn someone about it, and were 
brushed aside.
    Mr. Chairman, our duty is to pursue the facts and the 
evidence and I believe it's essential that our committee 
examine evidence of deceptive practices and behavior which is 
so poisonous to the public trust and the integrity of the 
financial markets.
    Mr. Chairman, you've been dogged in your pursuit of 
corporate responsibility and accountability in these cases and 
I believe that dogged pursuit is eventually going to help us 
restore trust and integrity because companies watching these 
hearings, executives and board members watching these hearings, 
watching the light of day shown on these practices, are going 
to know that they can't do it any more. They've got to be 
honest with investors and they've got to think a little bit 
more about the companies and the employees they destroy when 
they play games like we discovered were being played at these 
two enormously important corporations.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Greenwood. The Chair thanks the chairman of the full 
committee and recognizes the gentlelady from Colorado for an 
opening statement for 5 minutes.
    Ms. DeGette. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to thank the 
chairman for having this hearing today. Qwest is headquartered 
in my District, Denver, and it employs 15,000 people in 
Colorado, so you can imagine my constituents' interest in this 
matter.
    When I was reviewing the e-mails that form a basis for a 
lot of this hearing, I couldn't help but think about my 
grandmother and how when I was a little girl in Denver, I used 
to go over to her house and in her basement she had one of 
those old black telephones from the 1940's with the really 
heavy handset and you'd pick that telephone up and you'd dial a 
phone number and the person at the other end would answer. And 
what I was thinking about was, isn't that what the phone 
company is supposed to do? And then I was reading these e-mails 
and I was thinking to myself how the industry has changed since 
then, since I was a little girl and how telecommunications, in 
general, has changed. But frankly, how telecommunications' 
essential mission has not changed since that time. And the 
essential mission is really to still help people communicate.
    Now as most of my colleagues know, U.S. West, which is the 
predecessor to Qwest, was created with the break up of Ma Bell 
as one of the baby Bells serving the Rocky Mountain region. 
U.S. West was a solid, profitable and traditional company with 
strong ties in the community. The stock wasn't the most cutting 
edge, but frankly when you picked up the phone to call somebody 
you could get a hold of them and that was exactly the kind of 
company you'd want your grandmother to invest in.
    In June 2000, in the waning days of the go-go internet 
boom, a group of cowboys by the name of Qwest came riding into 
town and they acquired U.S. West. These cowboys promised big 
changes, higher profits, more efficiency, new innovation. They 
plastered the Qwest name in huge blue letters visible day and 
night across two of the biggest skyscrapers in Denver, to show 
their vision. Instead of a traditional telephone company, they 
would turn the new Qwest into a model of the new economy. This 
led, as you might imagine, to a bumpier corporate transition 
than most. The top management changed almost completely. 
Service problems abounded. There were painful layoffs and 
almost a complete halt of corporate charitable giving. This 
corporate culture led to dramatic changes in how Qwest did 
business.
    In the years since Qwest's new management took over, their 
bad business decisions have had a significant impact on our 
local economy, the local work force and the community. And now 
it appears the problems are much worse than simply poor 
business decisions. That's why we're here today.
    What we know is that Qwest engaged in swaps with companies 
like Global Crossing and Enron where each company traded 
capacity with the others. The mere fact that these trades 
occurred is not a problem, but what is a problem is the 
recording of profits from these swaps and the oral side 
agreements that were part of the swaps. As you've heard from 
our Chairman and others, Qwest booked revenues in the same year 
that it received capacity from Global Crossing, yet it recorded 
the expenses over a number of years. This, of course, had the 
effect of artificially inflating Qwest profits.
    In reviewing the e-mails that document transactions one 
thing becomes clear, the Qwest management was not spending its 
time trying to fix all of the problems associated with the 
bumpy takeover. Instead, they were trying to figure out how to 
maximize their book value.
    Now I think that we need to get to the bottom of this. I 
think we also need to look at the role of the Qwest board which 
has been an important issue, with Enron, ImClone and other 
investigations. And here's why this is so essential, even 
though we have all of these problems Qwest is still my local 
telephone company and remains an important part of the 
community. I am heartened to report, Mr. Chairman, that Qwest 
has new leadership and I believe that the new leadership in 
making the $1.4 billion adjustment, in reaching out to the 
community and the employees and the retirees is trying to do 
the right thing. And I hope when you bring the former 
management in, you will also bring the new management in to 
talk about what they're doing. But in the meantime, Qwest has 
more than 50,000 retirees and employees across the United 
States. I want to be confident in this company. I want to be 
confident in the entire telecommunications industry and I think 
that the investors on Wall Street want to have that same 
feeling.
    I look forward to hearing the testimony today, Mr. 
Chairman, and I yield back the balance of my time.
    Mr. Greenwood. The Chair thanks the gentlelady and 
recognizes the gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Whitfield for 5 
minutes for an opening statement.
    Mr. Whitfield. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the 
committee, it is imperative that the hearings be held and our 
continuing effort to bring to light the serious problem of 
deception in parts of corporate America.
    Today, we're once again confronted with two companies whose 
business practices are being called into question. I hope we do 
not hear corporate executives pleading ignorance to facts that 
indicate the contrary. Workers raising concerns, but those 
concerns being ignored, all with the same result, bankruptcy, 
thousands of jobs lost nd pensions and retirement funds lost.
    Since our committee first started investigating the issues 
of corporate accounting abuse, the American people have been 
shocked at the deception and lack of concern by senior 
management for employees, for stock holders, for customers, for 
the general public. Employees who went to work every day, put 
in long hours, committed to the company, providing a living for 
their families, hoping to save for the future, buying stock on 
the company, those people did their part, but unfortunately 
senior executives did not do their part. These greedy 
individuals looking out only for themselves and the quick buck 
have shattered the dreams of thousands and have caused alarm 
throughout the country.
    While the Congress, the Justice Department and SEC and 
maybe other governmental agencies will examine the culpability 
of those individuals, I believe we must recognize, as my friend 
from Colorado said, that companies are much more than senior 
executives. As we hear testimony from the witnesses today, our 
goal should be to get the information we need to help ensure 
that these abuses do not happen again. What has happened, has 
happened. We must look to the future and if there is a way to 
save the company, the jobs, the pension funds, the hopes, we 
must pursue it.
    Qwest alone has over 50,000 employees and nearly as many 
retirees. Nobody, of course, benefits from the demise of any 
company, so I look forward to hearing from the witnesses today 
and the questions from my colleagues and I hope that we are 
able to bring measures to light that must be brought.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Greenwood. The Chair thanks the gentleman and 
recognizes the gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Stupak for 5 
minutes for an opening statement.
    Mr. Stupak. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Lately we've been busy 
with the debate to create another government agency, the 
Department of Homeland Security. My concerns regarding that 
agency have long been whether there will be someone 
accountable, someone in charge, someone who will accept 
responsibility for the decisions made or to be made. I find 
myself here today asking similar questions. Why is there no one 
accountable? Very few individuals, if any, have stepped forward 
to stop this corporate wrongdoing. How are these companies 
getting way with this? How many hearings will we have to find 
out why American investors and employees are left empty handed 
while corporate executives leave their bankrupt companies 
richer than when they came in?
    What I've heard from Enron and now today Qwest has left me 
stunned. We find corporate America knowingly making 
misstatements and intentionally padding the revenues of their 
companies with blatant disregard for the truth and for facts.
    I have before me this binder of documents, as we all do. 
These documents, has paper upon paper, of select company 
employees who knew they were misleading the public. E-mails 
that put revenues first and actual business need second. 
There's an e-mail right here that's marked ``confidential'' on 
the top. It says here, ``Susan told me Greg is ready to write a 
check for $75 million this quarter for capacity on SAC.'' It 
goes on to say ``what the hell are we going to buy?'' I guess 
I'd ask what the hell is Congress going to do about this total 
corporate mess.
    I believe and I've long advocated that we must repeal the 
1995 Private Securities Litigation Reform Act. I've introduced 
legislation to do just that, to return the legal rights back to 
the American investor by repealing the ill-conceived Private 
Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. The Private 
Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 has fostered this 
total disregard for ethics, legal and moral responsibility in 
corporate and financial America.
    I have introduced a bill that will repeal the Private 
Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and empower 
shareholders to seek legal redress when they have discovered 
wrongdoing, rather than being prohibited as they are now under 
current law.
    It is no coincidence that the restatement of earnings that 
you will hear about today go back to the passage of the 1995 
act. My bill would also allow shareholders to use the full 
extent of the court system to go after corporate wrong doers. 
It would restore legal liability for those corporate 
executives, auditors, attorneys and others who have abused the 
public trust and corporate trust.
    We must empower the investors to be on the front lines as a 
practical and as a proactive check on the rampant misdeeds that 
have been going on in some corporations.
    These hearings are needed to end an era where corporate 
executives have been operating in the cover of darkness at the 
expense of corporate responsibility and good faith and innocent 
shareholders and employees are being hurt.
    I'd like to thank our staffs, both Democrat and Republican 
staffs for the fine work they've done over the summer. In this 
case, they've been working on the Qwest documents since March 
2002 and helping us and this country understand the lack of 
corporate accountability and responsibility to the American 
people, shareholders and their employees.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Greenwood. The Chair thanks the gentleman and 
recognizes the gentleman from Maine, Mr. Bass--New Hampshire.
    Mr. Bass. When did I come from Maine?
    Mr. Greenwood. New Hampshire.
    Mr. Bass. I appreciate the gentleman from Ohio recognizing 
me. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing and 
building on this subcommittee's impressive record of oversight 
response to crisis in corporate governance accounting 
practices.
    Mr. Chairman, I look forward to today's testimony and I 
remain frankly amazed at the level of duplicity and greed that 
a small amount of people thought they could get away with. It 
reminds in some respects to the events of last week when a 
robber was able to be conned into entering the Capitol Police's 
Central Headquarters in the Longworth Building to reach an ATM. 
How he ever thought he'd get away with that is similar to what 
we seem to be uncovering today.
    But I also am concerned about the fate of what's left 
behind in the wake of all these scandals and earnings 
restatements, layoffs, plummeting equity prices and so on. It's 
important to remember that there are, especially in the case of 
Qwest, real companies and real employees, real retirees, and 
customers who need services, underlying services that are now 
controlled or managed by these companies and we can and should 
vigorously pursue the people involved and they should spend 
real time in real prisons as we have legislated with our 
Corporate Accountability Bill, the Sarbanes-Oxley Bill, but we 
shouldn't through these hearings or anything else, cause more 
harm to those innocent people who have been so affected. These 
companies need to convince their customers, their investors, 
their workers and government regulators that they've cleaned up 
the mess and have worked to get past the problem in a 
sustainable and equitable manner and I assume we'll hear from 
these witnesses about such progress.
    The case before us today warns of this danger more than any 
of the others that have come before us. In Qwest, not just 
another dot com or technology enterprise, but Qwest is, as we 
know, the local telephone company for the whole western part of 
the United States and a failure of bankruptcy of this company 
would have substantially more impact on consumers and we ought 
to keep that in mind as we move forward.
    The problems, I suspect that relate to corporate 
malfeasance are over. This hearing and the others that we've 
held before us, as the chairman mentioned in his opening 
statement, send--serve to send a clear message to current 
corporate executives, that Congress and the Justice Department 
and the American public will not tolerate this kind of behavior 
in the future.
    It is our responsibility to get to the bottom of this 
issue, but do so in such a manner so that we do not jeopardize 
real value that exists today and I yield back to the chairman.
    Mr. Greenwood. The Chair thanks the gentleman and 
recognizes the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Strickland, for 5 
minutes for his opening statement.
    Mr. Strickland. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the 
reputation of corporate America has been tarnished over the 
course of the past year. We've learned the hard way that 
America's accounting standards are insufficient and that 
American business ethics fall short of the general public's 
expectations. We must not write off the collapse of Enron and 
the unfolding financial turmoil of the telecom sector as the 
growing pains of new industries. Accounting standards must stay 
ahead of the curve in anticipation of the newest developments 
in energy trading and the technological advances of 
communications.
    Yesterday, we learned that Qwest Communications plans to 
restate its financial statements from 2000 and 2001 in order to 
cancel $950 million in sales of capacity swaps. We will hear 
today how those capacity swaps were used in vain to revive a 
dying company.
    In 1999, Qwest's stock doubled in value from $20 per share 
to $40 per share and in 2000, Qwest shareholders experienced a 
heady ride as the stock bounced around between $40 and $60. It 
was during 2000, that investors were fooled into believing that 
Qwest's high stock price was founded on solid business 
practices and good management. Employees bought stock. Pension 
funds bought stock. Americans all over the country prepared for 
retirement by buying Qwest stock for their 401(k) plans and it 
was all a sham. It seems that Qwest engaged in these capacity 
swaps so they could meet publicly announced revenue targets and 
so that its stock price would remain in the clouds with the 
dreams of the company executives.
    Yesterday, Qwest stock closed at $2.79 and the company is 
under investigation, not only by this panel, but by the SEC and 
the DOJ as well. Now many of us are wondering what we can do to 
stem the tide of all this corporate wrong doing. We created a 
new body to set accounting standards in an attempt to change 
business practices inside the companies. We required the 
executives to certify quarterly and annual statements so that 
investors can believe that what they are reading is true, but 
we didn't create a penalty for the companies whose principal 
executives failed to certify reports.
    Later this week I will introduce legislation to do just 
that. My bill will prohibit the Federal Government from 
contracting with a company whose CEO fails to certify periodic 
reports as required by Section 302 of the Sarbanes-Oxley At. It 
would also require the SEC to make public a list of those 
companies who have failed to comply with Section 302.
    I invite all of my colleagues here today to join in co-
sponsoring language that will give executives a reason to think 
twice before they falsely certify their 10-Qs or 10-Ks. Qwest 
is one of a handful of companies whose CEOs and CFOs have been 
unable to verify their companies' SEC filings from the past 
year and it has yet to file a quarterly report for the second 
quarter. Failure to certify periodic reports should make 
investors and customers alike a little wary and I think the 
Federal Government itself should be a little wary of 
contracting with companies who can't abide by the law.
    Today, we will try to get to the bottom of some of these 
shady deals transacted over the past years which make Qwest 
current executives so uncertain of past financial statements.
    Mr. Chairman, there is a malignancy growing within 
corporate America and it is killing the hopes and dreams of 
America's families. I hope we take the strongest possible 
action in this committee and in this Congress. And Mr. 
Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
    Mr. Greenwood. The Chair thanks the gentleman and 
recognizes the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Stearns, for his 
opening statement.
    Mr. Stearns. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and of course, like 
my colleagues, I compliment you for having this hearing. It's 
unfortunate that we have to have this hearing. The 
telecommunications sector, of course, has been the hardest hit 
in this downturn in the economy and it's affected, obviously, 
hundreds of thousands of people and they're wondering about 
their jobs, could their jobs have been saved if management had 
been prudent? Had there been better accounting practices, 
disclosure requirements and corporate mismanagement been 
curtailed, and if the board of directors of these companies had 
been responsible, could they have stopped it? These are a lot 
of the questions we need to answer.
    Mr. Chairman, there's a fundamental thought that's going 
through a lot of people, both here in Washington and outside. 
There's been a huge transfer of wealth from investors, men and 
women, the small investors to a clique of management in this 
country and it has happened seamlessly and this is wrong. If 
capitalism is supposed to work, it's going to work, and if free 
enterprise is a key aspect about it, we can't have this 
transfer to 10,000 individuals or a small group of people. 
There has to be in place the requirements, whether it's 
accounting practice, disclosure, transparency, preventing 
corporate mismanagement or making the board of directors more 
responsible because in the end this huge transfer affects every 
man and woman who is looking for retirement and they went under 
the assumption that when their broker, their institutional 
mutual fund made their decision that there was transparency.
    For the 9,000 people who lost their jobs as a result of the 
Global Crossing bankruptcy, most of which they were unaware of 
these improprieties and they've cost them their jobs. The reach 
of Global Crossing debacle into telecommunications is deep by 
some estimates 500,000 jobs and $2 trillion in market 
capitalization and a sector was lost as a direct result of this 
bankruptcy. This is an awesome, awesome thing.
    So Mr. Chairman, I think it's very important that Congress 
give credibility to these hearings by trying to offer solutions 
after it's over. So I urge you and my colleagues that we work 
together, if there's more that can be done. So I look forward 
to the testimony and I thank you for the hearing.
    Mr. Greenwood. The Chair thanks the gentleman and I believe 
that that concludes our opening statements and now I would like 
to introduce our first panel. They are Mr. Patrick Joggerst, 
who is the former President of Carrier Sales for Global 
Crossing; Mr. Roy Olofson, the former Vice President of Finance 
for Global Crossing; and Ms. Robin Szeliga, the Executive Vice 
President for Qwest Communications International. We thank each 
of you for coming. We appreciate your willingness to come and 
testify before us. I think you are aware that the committee is 
holding an investigative hearing and when we hold investigative 
hearings it is our practice to take testimony under oath.
    Do any of you object to giving your testimony under oath 
this morning? Seeing no such objection I would advise you that 
pursuant to the rules of this committee and pursuant to the 
rules of the House, that you're entitled to be advised by 
counsel. Are you advised by counsel this morning, Mr. Joggerst? 
All right, would you identify your counsel by name, please? Is 
your microphone on, sir?
    Mr. Joggerst. Yes, my counsel is here. His name is Lorne 
Cohen.
    Mr. Greenwood. Mr. Olofson, are you represented by counsel? 
You need to push your button on those microphones.
    Mr. Olofson. I am represented by counsel, Mr. Paul Murphy.
    Mr. Greenwood. Good morning, sir. Thank you for being with 
us. And Ms. Szeliga, are you represented by counsel? You have 
to push your button as well.
    Ms. Szeliga. Yes, I am.
    Mr. Greenwood. You have two attorneys and they are?
    Ms. Szeliga. Pardon me, Terry Byrd and Vince Morella.
    Mr. Greenwood. Welcome, gentlemen, we thank you for being 
with us this morning.
    All right, in that case, if you would rise and raise your 
right hand, I will give you the oath.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    You are under oath. You may be seated and I believe each of 
you has an opening statement that you'd like to make and we're 
going to go from right to left and we're going to begin with 
you, Mr. Joggerst. You are recognized for 5 minutes for your 
opening statement.

  TESTIMONY OF PATRICK JOGGERST, FORMER PRESIDENT OF CARRIER 
   SALES, GLOBAL CROSSING, LTD.; ROY L. OLOFSON, FORMER VICE 
PRESIDENT OF FINANCE, GLOBAL CROSSING, LTD.; AND ROBIN SZELIGA, 
 EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, QWEST COMMUNICATIONS INTERNATIONAL, 
                              INC.

    Mr. Joggerst. Very good, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Mr. 
Chairman and members of the subcommittee. My name is Patrick 
Joggerst. I joined Global Crossing in early 1998 following 18 
years at AT&T. I was the twelfth person asked to join the 
company and was involved in marketing and selling wholesale 
products and services since its inception.
    The founders and early employees of Global Crossing share 
da vision of a worldwide fiber optic network. My friends and 
colleagues, together with our suppliers and customers, gave 
that vision life.
    In the early years, demand for global broadband 
connectivity was insatiable. Global Crossing's success 
attracted many competitors with their own financial backers 
eager to replicate Global Crossing's reach.
    In the first three quarters of 2001, Global Crossing's 
stock price started plummeting and recurring revenues failed to 
grow as anticipated. These were the results of the now well-
known glut of fiber optic capacity. However, at the time, I 
continued to believe in the company's future and even suspected 
that the market for global connectivity might rebound. In 
October 2001, I asked the company for additional stock options. 
Unfortunately, my optimism has proven to be incorrect.
    I left Global Crossing at the end of 2001 to pursue new 
opportunities. I have been asked to cooperate with this 
committee and I'm pleased to do so.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Patrick Joggerst follows.]
  Prepared Statement of Patrick Joggerst, Former President of Carrier 
                      Sales, Global Crossing Ltd.
    Good morning. My name is Patrick Joggerst. I joined Global Crossing 
in early 1998 following 18 years at AT&T. I was the 12th person asked 
to join the company and was involved in marketing and selling wholesale 
products and services since its inception.
    The founders and early employees of Global Crossing shared a vision 
of a worldwide fiber optic network. My friends and colleagues, together 
with our suppliers and customers, gave that vision life.
    In the early years, demand for global broadband connectivity was 
insatiable. Global Crossing's success attracted many competitors with 
their own financial backers eager to replicate Global Crossing's reach.
    In the first three quarters of 2001, Global Crossing's stock price 
started plummeting and recurring revenues failed to grow as 
anticipated. These were the results of the now well-known glut of fiber 
optic capacity. However, at the time, I continued to believe in the 
company's future and even suspected that the market for global 
connectivity would rebound. In October 2001, I asked the company for 
stock options. Unfortunately my optimism has proven to be incorrect.
    I left Global Crossing at the end of 2001 to pursue new 
opportunities.
    I have been asked to cooperate with this committee and I am pleased 
to do so.

    Mr. Greenwood. Thank you, Mr. Joggerst.
    Mr. Olofson, do you have an opening statement?

                  STATEMENT OF ROY L. OLOFSON

    Mr. Olofson. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member 
Deutsch and other members of the subcommittee and Chairman 
Tauzin. I come here today to assist the subcommittee in its 
investigation of Global Crossing, but I'm also here today for 
another very important reason. I come here to begin the process 
of clearing my name. It is very difficult to pick up the 
newspaper day after day and read how Global Crossing and it's 
public relations machine has accused me of being a disgruntled 
employee. It is also very difficult to find out from friends at 
Global Crossing that after spending over 3 years with the 
company, its chairman of the board, Gary Winnick, had the 
audacity to stand up in front of the entire office and call me 
an extortionist. So I am here today not merely to help you in 
the discovery of the truth, I am also here to help me and my 
family get our lives back.
    As the members of the committee may know, I joined Global 
Crossing as Vice President of Finance in 1998. And I was 
Global's fortieth employee. When I joined Global, I brought 
with me over 28 years of senior financial management 
experience. As Vice President of Finance, I was responsible for 
the company's accounting and financial reporting functions, 
including preparation of budgets, consolidated financial 
statements and filings with the SEC. I reported directly to the 
Chief Financial Officer and I built a staff of some 15 to 20 
people.
    This was an incredibly exciting time for the company and we 
all felt very positive about it's long-term potential. At the 
time, our primary product was the sale of capacity known as 
IRUs and we worked closely with both the SEC and the FASB to 
properly understand and account for these transactions.
    We also had substantial assistance from Arthur Andersen and 
in particular its partner, Joseph Perrone, whom you worked 
closely on many issues. In May 2000, Global Crossing hired Joe 
Perrone as Senior Vice President of Finance. My 
responsibilities were then in the process of changing so that I 
was now focusing on streamlining and integrating the operations 
of what now had become an extremely large company, particularly 
after the merger with Frontier Telecommunications in September 
1999.
    In January 2001, I was diagnosed with lung cancer. Shortly 
thereafter, I took a medical leave of absence to allow me time 
for surgery and rehabilitation. While I was on leave, I learned 
that Global was having a difficult time meeting its first 
quarter revenue projections. I later learned that Global 
ultimately was able to meet its numbers, in part, due to some 
large last minute swap transactions.
    I returned to work in early May 2001 and on June 1, during 
discussions with Joe Perrone about my on-going job 
responsibilities, I told Mr. Perrone I was concerned about the 
way the company had accounted for certain transactions in the 
first quarter and that on a conference call with investors and 
financial analysts, Global's CEO Tom Casey said, ``there were 
no swaps in the quarter.'' Mr. Perrone minimized my concerns 
and said that the company was getting out of the IRU business.
    During June and July I again began to hear concerns that 
the company was engaging in last minute swap transactions as a 
means to boost revenues. I received a copy of a document known 
as the sales funnel that indicated that approximately 13 of the 
18 largest IRU transactions completed in the second quarter 
were last minute swaps, were identical or substantially 
identical amounts of cash were being exchanged along with the 
underlying capacity.
    I found it hard to believe that if the substance of these 
transactions were swaps of capacity that the mere expedient of 
round tripping cash would allow the Your Honor to record 
revenue. By mid to late July, Mr. Perrone still had not given 
me any new job responsibilities and I believed that this was 
occurring because of my conversation with him back in June. On 
August 2, on the company's quarterly conference call with the 
financial analysts for the second quarter, I again heard Tom 
Casey state there had been no swaps in the quarter. I became 
deeply concerned because I felt that the statement was 
inaccurate.
    Pursuant to the company's ethics policy, any concerns about 
the propriety of the company's financial reporting was to be 
directed to the Chief Ethics Officer, James Gorton. I therefore 
sent a letter to Mr. Gorton on August 6 which outlined my 
concerns. Shortly after I sent this letter to Mr. Gorton, I 
received a letter from him assuring me that the matter would be 
fully investigated and that as a member of management, I should 
keep this matter confidential. We now know that while the 
company issued a press release in January 2002 stating that my 
concerns had been fully investigated and found to be without 
merit, they had never given a copy of my letter to Arthur 
Andersen and had never interviewed me.
    This investigation was so inadequate that the company has 
since opened a second investigation which is yet to be 
completed.
    I want to end by stressing two points. First, when I wrote 
my letter, I did not know all the facts surrounding these 
transactions, therefore my letter was not designed or meant to 
conclude that I knew that these transactions were shams. 
Instead, it was designed to say that they didn't pass the smell 
test and therefore should be investigated. However, the facts 
that have been made public since that time only seemed to 
further undermine the legitimacy of these transactions. In 
particular, I have reviewed reports that are in this 
committee's possession from Global's engineers that show that 
most of the IRUs Global received through these swap 
transactions are now considered absolutely worthless.
    Apparently, this study was completed in mid-2001 and 
therefore it appears that Global management must have been 
aware of the issue prior to my letter of August 6.
    I have also reviewed the recent pronouncement of the SEC 
which in my opinion fully supports the concept that if all a 
transaction represents is an exchange of capacity, the 
transaction should be treated as such and not be counted as 
revenue.
    As Mr. Timothy Lucas, head of the FASB Emerging Issues Task 
Force said, ``an exchange of similar network capacity is the 
equivalent of trading a blue truck for a red truck. It 
shouldn't boost the company's revenue.''
    Second, I have been characterized in the press as a whistle 
blower and I have even heard my counsel use that term when 
referring to me. I do not see myself that way. I first aired my 
concerns in June 2001. On August 6 I complied with the 
company's ethics policy and wrote my letter to Mr. Gorton. I 
did so because I was concerned that the public was being 
misled. I concluded that regardless of the ramifications, as an 
officer of the company, I had an obligation to express my 
concerns about what I thought was potentially over aggressive 
accounting. At the time, I believed the company would 
investigate my concerns in good faith. I was wrong. Instead, 
they fired me.
    I can honestly say that I never imagined in my wildest 
dreams that my letter would contribute toward putting in motion 
a series of events that has led to my appearance before this 
committee today. That all being said, I welcome the committee's 
investigation and I will do everything in our power to assist 
the committee in its search for the truth, no matter what that 
might be.
    I now invite your questions and I hope that I prove to be 
of service to you.
    [The prepared statement of Roy L. Olofson follows.]
Prepared Statement of Roy L. Olofson, former Vice President of Finance, 
                          Global Crossing Ltd.
    Good morning Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Deutsch and the other 
members of the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations. I come 
here today to assist the Subcommittee in its investigation of Global 
Crossing. But, I also come here today for another very important 
reason. I come here to begin the process of clearing my name. It is 
very difficult for me and my family to pick up the newspaper day after 
day and read how Global Crossing and its P.R. machine have accused me 
of being a disgruntled employee. It is also very difficult to live a 
normal life when television crews lurk at our front door. And it is 
very difficult to find out from friends at Global Crossing that after 
spending over three years with the company, its Chairman of the Board, 
Gary Winnick, has the audacity to stand up in front of the entire 
office and call me an extortionist. So I am here today not merely to 
help you in the discovery of the truth, I am also here to help me and 
my family get our lives back.
    As the members of the Committee may know, I began my career working 
as a CPA for Price Waterhouse. I then became the Vice President of 
Finance for Carter Hawley Hale Stores, where I was responsible for 
accounting, internal auditing, all financial reporting and various 
treasury activities including supervising all public and private debt 
and equity offerings. After twelve years at Carter Hawler Hale, I left 
to become Chief Financial Officer of Fedco, Inc. which was a large 
membership-owned mass-merchandise retail company. By the time I 
departed Fedco fourteen years later, I had risen to the title of 
interim Chief Executive Officer. In 1998, after a brief stint as CFO of 
PIA Merchandise Services, Inc.--a company for which I was responsible 
for all financial reporting to investors and the SEC--I was hired as 
the 40th employee of Global Crossing.
    When I was first hired at Global, I was responsible for the 
company's accounting and financial reporting functions, including 
preparation of budgets, consolidated financial statements and filings 
with the SEC. I reported directly to the CFO and I built a staff of 15-
20 people. This was an incredibly exciting time for the company and we 
all felt very positive about its long term potential. At the time our 
primary product was the sale of capacity known as IRUs and we worked 
closely with both the SEC and the FASB to properly understand and 
account for these transactions. We also had substantial assistance from 
Arthur Andersen and, in particular, its partner, Joseph Perrone, with 
whom I worked closely on many issues.
    In May 2000, Global Crossing hired Joe Perrone as its Senior Vice 
President of Finance. Immediately, he took over the accounting and 
financial reporting functions. Most of the people who previously 
reported to me began to report directly to him. My responsibilities 
changed so that I was now focusing on streamlining and integrating the 
operations of what now had become an extremely large company, 
particularly after the merger with Frontier Telecommunications in 
September of 1999.
    In January 2001, I was diagnosed with lung cancer. Shortly 
thereafter, I took a medical leave of absence to allow me time for 
surgery and rehabilitation. While I was on leave, I learned that Global 
was having a very difficult time meeting its first quarter revenue 
projections. I also learned that Global ultimately was able to meet its 
numbers in part due to some large, last-minute transactions where 
Global swapped IRU capacity with other carriers.
    I returned to work in early May 2001 and began the process of 
getting up to speed on what had happened at the company during my 
absence. One of the things I did was to listen to Global's quarterly 
conference call with financial analysts and the public regarding its 
financial results for the first quarter ended March 31, 2001. During 
the call, one of the analysts asked management whether there had been 
any capacity swaps in the quarter. I was very surprised to hear 
Global's CEO, Tom Casey, unequivocally state that ``there were no swaps 
in the quarter.''
    Both before and after this conference call, I spoke with some of 
the financial analysts in the company. I began to learn that there was 
a general sense of uneasiness about these swap transactions and in 
particular about a transaction with 360 Networks. Through discussions 
with various people, I learned that 360 Networks and Global Crossing 
had entered into a last-minute transaction wherein Global booked $150 
million in Cash Revenues even though it had not received a penny in 
cash. While the transaction originally called for Global Crossing to 
pay $200 million to 360 Networks and then for 360 Networks to pay 
Global Crossing $150 million, I was told only the net amount of $50 
million changed hands. It was rumored that the gross amount of cash did 
not actually change hands because Global Crossing was concerned that 
360 Networks was about to file bankruptcy and that, if it sent the 
additional $150 million, 360 Networks might declare bankruptcy in the 
interim and would therefore not be able to return the $150 million to 
Global Crossing.
    At about this same time, I was speaking with Dan Cohrs about my 
responsibilities within the company. He told me that the company needed 
someone to manage its working capital and that might be an appropriate 
role for me. He asked me to speak with Joe Perrone who was scheduled to 
be in town May 31 and June 1. I met with Joe on both days. During those 
meetings, Joe suggested several new responsibilities that I might 
assume for the company. As these responsibilities would require me to 
spend significant time at Global's offices in New Jersey, we discussed 
travel and housing allowances and related issues. At the end of our 
meeting on the second day, we were at a restaurant after which Mr. 
Perrone was scheduled to go to the airport to catch a plane back to New 
Jersey, which was where he was based. Near the end of our meeting, the 
subject of the conversation changed to the financial condition of the 
company. I took the opportunity to express my concerns about Tom 
Casey's statement in the quarterly conference call that there had been 
``no swaps'' in the first quarter, when in fact there appeared to have 
been a significant number and a substantial dollar amount of swap 
transactions. I also told him there were a number of people in the 
office concerned about the accounting for those swap transactions, 
particularly the inclusion of $150 million cash relating to the 360 
Networks transaction in cash revenue and adjusted EBITDA when no cash 
was received.
    Mr. Perrone attempted to brush off my concerns. He stated that he 
had added some language to Global Crossing's press release regarding 
purchase commitments and that he interpreted the question from the 
analyst to which
    Mr. Casey responded as referring only to transactions called 
``Global Network Offers'' and not to capacity swaps. He also said the 
company was getting out of the IRU business. I told Mr. Perrone that I 
disagreed with this interpretation and I also told him that the 
additional language was vague and that analysts and investors would not 
understand the ramifications of the brief mention of purchase 
commitments.
    It was clear that Mr. Perrone did not appreciate my comments and 
didn't want to talk about it anymore. He was visibly upset. He said he 
had to leave to catch his plane. He then turned to me and said that the 
Executive Committee was meeting on June 4th and 5th to discuss layoffs 
of 50 management personnel and that I should call him on June 6th to 
learn the results of the meeting. He said he would have to justify my 
position. He then picked up his bag and walked to the waiting limousine 
without saying another word.
    I was absolutely shocked. Prior to discussing my concerns, our 
conversations regarding my responsibilities within the company were 
very positive and constructive. When I went on my medical leave, I 
received an email from Tom Casey encouraging me to ``hurry back'' 
because I was ``a valuable member of the team'' and that they needed my 
assistance. It had been rumored that the company was considering 
layoffs but I had no idea that it would include me. In addition, Mr. 
Perrone's comments made absolutely no sense to me in light of the fact 
that we had just spent two days delineating my future job 
responsibilities.
    On June 6, 2001, I called Mr. Perrone as he had instructed but I 
was told that he was ``unavailable.'' By June 21, 2001, I still had not 
heard from Mr. Perrone, so I spoke to Dan Cohrs about it. Mr. Cohrs 
told me that Mr. Perrone had been busy but that he would have Mr. 
Perrone call me. It just so happened that when I walked into Mr. Cohrs' 
office, he was working on a press release. Given that I knew the first 
quarter had been difficult, I asked whether the press release was to 
reduce guidance for the rest of the year. Dan Cohrs stated, ``I would 
like to, but the Chairman had just sold 10 million shares of stock.'' 
Mr. Cohrs added that Global's management had advised the Board of 
Directors earlier that month that Global Crossing was considering 
lowering its guidance forecasts for the year but they were still 
reviewing the numbers. He also volunteered that the company had 
recently decided to indirectly guarantee or ``back-stop'' margin loans 
to certain officers, and that he hoped the price of Global's stock 
would increase because this would have to be disclosed in Global's next 
proxy statement.
    During June and July, I again began to hear concerns that the 
company was engaging in last minute ``swap'' transactions as a means to 
boost revenues. At one point, I received a copy of a document known as 
a ``sales funnel'' that indicated that approximately 13 of the 18 
largest IRU transactions completed in the second quarter were last-
minute swaps where identical or substantially identical amounts of 
money were being exchanged along with the underlying capacity. There 
was one set of columns labeled ``CASH IN'' and one labeled ``CASH 
OUT.'' Assuming the swaps of capacity had some business justification, 
I did not understand why they weren't simply accounted for as like-kind 
exchanges of assets. If the substance of the transactions were swaps of 
capacity, I found it hard to believe that the mere expedient of 
roundtripping cash would allow the parties to record revenue.
    By mid to late July, I still had not heard from Mr. Perrone and no 
one at the company was communicating with me on any meaningful basis; 
and I was given virtually no responsibilities. I believed that this was 
occurring because of my conversation with Mr. Perrone back in June. On 
August 2, 2001, I listened in to the company's conference call with 
financial analysts and the public regarding the financial results for 
the second quarter ended June 30, 2001. Again, I heard Tom Casey state 
that there had been no swaps in that quarter. I became deeply concerned 
because I felt that the statement was inaccurate. Pursuant to the 
company's ethics policy, any concerns about the propriety of the 
company's financial reporting was to be directed to the company's Chief 
Ethics Officer, James Gorton. I therefore sent a letter to Mr. Gorton 
on August 6th, which outlined my concerns.
    Shortly after I sent this letter to Mr. Gorton, I received a letter 
from him assuring me that the matter would be fully investigated and 
that, as a member of management, I should keep this matter 
confidential. We now know that while the company issued a press release 
in January 2002 stating that my concerns had been fully investigated 
and found to be without merit, at that point in time they had never 
given a copy of my letter to Arthur Andersen and had never interviewed 
me. This investigation was so inadequate that the company has since 
opened a second investigation which has yet to be completed.
    I want to end by stressing two points. First, when I wrote my 
letter, I did not know all the facts surrounding these transactions. 
While I knew what Global was selling, I had no idea what Global was 
buying. That is important because it could dictate how the transactions 
should be accounted for. Therefore, my letter was not designed or meant 
to conclude that I knew that these transactions were shams; instead, it 
was designed to say that they didn't pass the smell test and should 
therefore be investigated. However, the facts that have been made 
public since that time only seem to further undermine the legitimacy of 
these transactions. In particular, I have reviewed reports that are in 
this Committee's possession from Global's engineers that show that most 
of the IRUs Global received through these swap transactions are now 
considered absolutely worthless. Apparently, this study was completed 
in mid-2001 and therefore it appears that Global management must have 
been aware of the issue prior to my letter of August 6th. I have also 
reviewed the recent pronouncement of the SEC which in my opinion fully 
supports the concept that if all a transaction represents is an 
exchange of capacity, the transaction should be treated as such and not 
be counted as revenue. As Mr. Timothy Lucas, head of the FASB Emerging 
Issues Task Force said, ``An exchange of similar network capacity is 
the equivalent of trading a blue truck for a red truck, it shouldn't 
boost a company's revenue.''
    Second, I have been characterized in the press as a 
``whistleblower'' and I have even heard my counsel use that term when 
referring to me. I do not see myself that way. Rather, I see myself as 
simply an officer of the corporation who was merely attempting to do 
his job. I first aired my concerns with Joe Perrone in June 2001. On 
August 6, I complied with the company's ethics policy and wrote my 
letter to Mr. Gorton. I did so because I was concerned that the public 
was being misled. I concluded that, regardless of the ramifications, as 
an officer of the company, I had an obligation to express my concerns 
about what I thought was potentially over-aggressive accounting. At the 
time, I believed the company would investigate my concerns in good 
faith. I was wrong. Instead, they fired me. I can honestly say that I 
never imagined in my wildest dreams that my letter would contribute 
toward putting in motion a series of events that has led to my 
appearance before this Committee today. However, had I not written my 
letter, I suspect I might be sitting here trying to answer questions as 
to why I didn't express my concerns.
    That all being said, I welcome the Committee's investigation, and I 
will do everything in my power to assist the Committee in its search 
for the truth--no matter what that may be. I now invite your questions 
and hope that I prove to be of service to you.

    Mr. Greenwood. Thank you, Mr. Olofson. You have already 
proven to be of great service to us and to your country. And we 
thank you for your presence.
    Ms. Szeliga, do you have an opening statement?
    Ms. Szeliga. Yes, I do.
    Mr. Greenwood. You are recognized for 5 minutes. I would 
suggest that you bring the base of that microphone right in 
front of you and speak directly into it. There you go. Thank 
you.

                   STATEMENT OF ROBIN SZELIGA

    Ms. Szeliga. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the 
subcommittee. My name is Robin Szeliga. I was the Chief 
Financial Officer at Qwest for approximately 15 months, from 
April 2001 until early July 2002. I am currently an Executive 
Vice President in charge of real estate and procurement for 
Qwest.
    While I served as CFO, I reported to CEO Joseph Nacchio, 
and worked closely with the Audit Committee of the Board of 
Directors. I headed a CFO organization that was comprised of 
nearly 4000 people. Qwest was faced with many important 
challenges during my tenure as CFO. Among those challenges were 
the integration of U.S. West, a Regional Bell Operating Company 
with which Qwest had recently merged; the restructuring of the 
organization and the management team at Qwest following the 
merger; the reentry by Qwest into the long-distance telephone 
market; and the ask of improving telephone service in the 14-
State region previously served by U.S. West.
    As CFO, I was ultimately responsible for Financial Planning 
and Analysis, Financial Operations, Treasury, Internal Audit, 
Tax, Procurement, Corporate Strategy, Billing, Credit and 
Collections, and the Controllership, including accounting 
systems support, technical accounting, financial reporting, 
payroll, and accounts payable. Assisting me in these 
responsibilities were various talented and very dedicated 
people, including the Controller and the Assistant Controller. 
They, in turn, had staffs which included accountants who were 
responsible for various technical accounting issues. I relied 
on, and at times worked with, this team of experienced 
accountants to analyze accounting requirements and apply them 
to specific transactions. The technical accounting group and I, 
in turn, relied on the accuracy of information provided to us 
by those who worked on various transactions for which we 
accounted. These included personnel in management and in the 
engineering and operations departments, various personnel in 
business unit and sales organizations,and finance personnel 
assigned to those business units.
    Qwest's auditors, Arthur Andersen, advised us on our 
financial reporting and accounting. Arthur Andersen worked 
closely, and on an ongoing basis, with Qwest's Controller and 
technical accounting group. In addition, Arthur Anderson 
performed annual audits and quarterly preissuance reviews. 
Arthur Anderson also periodically presented its findings, views 
and opinions on accounting issues to the Audit Committee of the 
Board of Directors. When significant accounting issues arose, 
the technical accounting team reviewed those issues with Arthur 
Andersen's staff to obtain their advice and guidance. Then 
appropriate, those issues were also brought to the attention of 
Qwest's Audit Committee and Qwest's internal audit and legal 
departments.
    During my tenure as CFO at Qwest, I took concrete steps to 
ensure that accounting principles were applied properly. For 
example, I added technical staff to the Controller's staff; I 
created a cross-functional team to review the complex sales 
transaction process; I initiated monthly meetings between the 
Controller and the Financial staff responsible for overseeing 
and directing Business Unit Finance; and I recommended a 
Finance Committee to the Board of Directors, which was 
ultimately established. I also improved the communication 
process between Qwest management and the Audit Committee.
    One of the many types of transactions that Qwest engaged in 
was the sale IRUs or indefeasible rights of use of capacity on 
Qwest's fiber-optic network. As you know, Qwest began selling 
IRUs well before I became CFO. In fact, as early as 1999, 
Arthur Andersen established guidance as to the application of 
accounting principles for IRU transactions. The IRU accounting 
was primarily performed by the Controller and the technical 
accountants in conjunction with finance personnel assigned to 
the business units. This team was responsible for the 
application of Generally Accepted Accounting Principles or GAAP 
in the recording of IRUs. I was not personally involved in 
reviewing the detailed terms and conditions of each of the IRU 
transactions. However, as with other types of transactions, I 
instituted a number of controls around IRUs.
    Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the opportunity to make this 
statement. As you know, I am appearing voluntarily today and I 
have cooperated fully with the subcommittee and its staff. 
However, please understand that I have not had access to, nor 
have I reviewed, all of the documentation that bears on the 
matters of this inquiry. Nevertheless, I will do my best to 
help the committee with respect to its inquiry. And now I would 
be happy to respond to any questions that the subcommittee 
might have.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Robin Szeliga follows.]
  Prepared Statement of Robin Szeliga, Executive Vice President, Qwest
    Good morning Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee. My name 
is Robin Szeliga. I was the Chief Financial Officer at Qwest for 
approximately 15 months, from April 2001 until early July 2002. I am 
currently an Executive Vice President in charge of real estate and 
procurement at Qwest.
    While I served as CFO, I reported to CEO Joseph Nacchio, and worked 
closely with the Audit Committee of the Board of Directors. I headed a 
CFO organization that was comprised of nearly 4,000 people. Qwest was 
faced with many important challenges during my tenure as CFO. Among 
those challenges were the integration of U.S. West, a Regional Bell 
Operating Company with which Qwest had recently merged; the 
restructuring of the organization and the management team at Qwest 
following the merger; the reentry by Qwest into the long-distance 
telephone market; and the task of improving telephone service in the 
14-state region previously served by U.S. West.
    As CFO, I was ultimately responsible for Financial Planning and 
Analysis, Financial Operations, Treasury, Investor Relations, Internal 
Audit, Tax, Procurement, Corporate Strategy, Billing, Credit & 
Collections, and the Controllership, including accounting systems 
support, technical accounting, financial reporting, payroll, and 
accounts payable. Assisting me in these responsibilities were various 
talented and dedicated people, including the Controller and the 
Assistant Controller. They in turn had staffs which included 
accountants, who were responsible for various technical accounting 
issues. I relied on, and at times worked with, this team of experienced 
accountants to analyze accounting requirements and apply them to 
specific transactions. The technical accounting group and I, in turn, 
relied on the accuracy of information provided to us by those who 
worked on various transactions for which we accounted. These included 
personnel in management and in the engineering and operations 
departments, various personnel in business unit and sales 
organizations, and finance personnel assigned to those business units.
    Qwest's auditors, Arthur Andersen, advised us on our financial 
reporting and accounting. Arthur Andersen worked closely, and on an 
ongoing basis, with Qwest's Controller and technical accounting group. 
In addition, Arthur Andersen performed annual audits and quarterly 
preissuance reviews. Arthur Andersen also periodically presented its 
findings, views and opinions on accounting issues to the Audit 
Committee of the Board of Directors. When significant accounting issues 
arose, the technical accounting team reviewed those issues with Arthur 
Andersen's staff to obtain their advice and guidance. When appropriate, 
those issues were also brought to the attention of Qwest's Audit 
Committee and Qwest's internal audit and legal departments.
    During my tenure as CFO at Qwest, I took concrete steps to ensure 
that accounting principles were applied properly. For example, I added 
technical expertise to the Controller's staff; I created a cross-
functional team to review the complex sales transaction process; I 
initiated monthly meetings between the Controller and the Finance staff 
responsible for overseeing and directing Business Unit Finance; and I 
recommended a Finance Committee of the Board of Directors, which was 
ultimately established. I also improved the communication process 
between Qwest management and the Audit Committee.
    One of the many types of transactions that Qwest engaged in was the 
sale of IRUs, or indefeasible rights of use of capacity on Qwest's 
fiber-optic network. As you know, Qwest began selling IRUs well before 
I became CFO. In fact, as early as 1999, Arthur Andersen established 
guidance as to the application of accounting principles for IRU 
transactions. The IRU accounting was primarily performed by the 
Controller and the technical accountants, in conjunction with finance 
personnel assigned to the business units. This team was responsible for 
the application of Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (``GAAP'') 
in the recording of IRUs. I was not personally involved in reviewing 
the detailed terms and conditions of each of the IRU transactions. 
However, as with other types of transactions, I instituted a number of 
controls governing IRUs.
    Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the opportunity to make this statement. 
As you know, I am appearing today voluntarily, and I have cooperated 
fully with this Subcommittee and its staff. However, please understand 
that I have not had access to, nor have I reviewed, all of the 
documentation that bears on the matters of this inquiry. Nevertheless, 
I will do my best to help the Subcommittee with respect to its inquiry. 
Now, I would be happy to respond to any questions that the Subcommittee 
might have.

    Mr. Greenwood. Thank you very much and being mindful of the 
fact that you haven't seen all of the documents, if we ask you 
to respond to a document, we'll give you plenty of time to 
review it and consult with your counsel if you need to.
    Okay, the Chair now recognizes himself for 10 minutes for 
inquiry and advises the members this will be a 10-minute round 
of questioning. And I'd like to start with you, Mr. Joggerst.
    Is it your understanding that the revenue targets set for 
2001 at Global Crossing were too high and aggressive, given the 
forecasted market?
    Mr. Joggerst. The sales process, generally, what we do is a 
bottoms up view in terms of what we thought was reasonable in 
the marketplace, the communications that we've had with our 
customers, their view of what their spending was and what their 
capital budgets were.
    In looking at initially what was the target for 2001 was 
someplace around $2 billion for an IRU perspective, $3 billion 
for the carrier wholesale business overall, which would have 
been a record number by any stretch of the imagination. And 
yes, I had some concern that that would be an overly aggressive 
target to put to the sales force.
    Mr. Greenwood. Okay, I'm going to ask you to turn to Tab 25 
in the binder there and I'd like you to review a confidential 
set of e-mails from the date, dated August 30, 2000. And I'd 
like you to turn to page--to the bottom of page 2 and you'll 
see what's titled original message from Robin Wright. This was 
sent August 29 at 5:41 p.m. to Gary Brenninger and it was 
copied to you. Do you see that?
    Mr. Joggerst. Yes, I do.
    Mr. Greenwood. And if you'll turn to the top of page 3 I'll 
read you some of the content. It says ``As you know, prices are 
dropping fast and to some extent we are our own worst enemy. 
When saddled with an unreasonable revenue expectations we do 
the crazy deals at the end of the quarter. This, in turn, 
causes prices to drop which makes it more likely that we'll 
need to do another deal at the end of the next quarter.'' Can 
you give us your translation of what means and why would Ms. 
Wright refer to ``crazy deals'' done at the end of the 
quarters?
    Mr. Joggerst. Generally, what we'd do is manage the sales 
funnel very closely and we had conference calls on a weekly 
basis and toward the end of a quarter, it would really be done 
on a daily basis. And what we would look at are the 
opportunities that were already contracted for, where we knew 
money was going to be coming in . We had what we called primary 
targets which were pretty well understood and thought out and 
we had a pretty strong likelihood of being able to capture 
those revenues.
    Then we also had secondary targets which were a little bit 
further out and of course, obviously, for the other quarters a 
much larger sales funnel was----
    Mr. Greenwood. So those would be the noncrazy deals?
    Mr. Joggerst. Those, well, let me explain what would be 
crazy. If you looked at what we normally assumed we could 
collect the money that was due to us, we assume--you'd assume 
we could get the deals that were in the primary category and 
then a portion of the secondary sales final. What is happening 
more and more, particularly in 2001 is that there was a 
requirement, really that we needed to win 100 percent of our 
secondary deals or a large portion of them, much larger than we 
normally would in order to make the revenue targets that were 
put to us. So that, from my perspective, it was something that 
was really pushing the envelope. It was really too aggressive.
    When Robin is talking about crazy deals at the end of the 
quarter, one thing that was clear during my--during that period 
of time at Global Crossing, it was not acceptable to miss your 
end of quarter number.
    Mr. Greenwood. So by ``crazy'' she meant, I assume, that 
this was a deal that was being done not because the bottoms up 
review of the market was driving it, but rather it was being 
driven by the need to meet revenue expectations period. Is that 
fair?
    Mr. Joggerst. It's fair that they are accelerated to close 
in a very compressed timeframe. I've heard members of the 
subcommittee mention that they think some of the transactions 
were, in fact, sham, that there really was no value placed in 
what we were selling or what we were purchasing. That's not my 
belief.
    I clearly believed that Global Crossing was still growing, 
that there was plenty of opportunity going forward and that we 
would have the capital and the ability to integrate those 
resources into the network going forward. What was happening is 
rather than having say weeks to negotiate capacity purchase 
with a customer, sometimes those transactions needed to be 
completed within 48 hours because we would literally watch the 
clock as it ticked down toward the end of the quarter.
    Mr. Greenwood. Did you communicate your frustration about 
meeting the 2001 projected IRU targets to senior management at 
Global Crossing?
    Mr. Joggerst. I recall--I don't recall any particular e-
mails, nor have I been shown any, but I do recall conversations 
with our CEO at the time, Tom Casey saying that really the 
bottoms up forecast doesn't come anywhere near $2 billion and 
the result of that there was a mini task force put in place to 
try and come up with some very large, very aggressive 
outsourcing deals from some of our major customers to try and 
bridge what was really a very large gap.
    Mr. Greenwood. Were any of the quarter IRU swaps entered 
into at the time they were closed done solely for the purpose 
of meeting the quarterly revenue numbers?
    Mr. Joggerst. There were at the end of first quarter, there 
was a transaction with 630 networks that was critical to make 
our quarterly numbers. The transaction could have waited. That 
one was a particular concern in that the financial stability of 
360 at the time was very much in question. There were a number 
of conversations that I had directly with our Chief Executive 
Officer, Tom Casey, as well as others about that.
    Similar kinds of transactions happened at the end of second 
quarter, particularly with FLAG and Cable and Wireless in that 
we needed to very dramatically accelerate some transactions 
that were going to close the quarter and again, the express 
purpose was to make sure that we made that quarter, end of 
quarter number. That's correct.
    Mr. Greenwood. Is it the case that Global Crossing would 
not have met its quarterly numbers, its revenue expectations 
without those deals. Is that correct?
    Mr. Joggerst. Absolutely correct.
    Mr. Greenwood. Can you describe the transaction with 360 
because my understanding that it was clear that 360 was on the 
verge of bankruptcy, that there was a sale made to 360 that 
revenues were--from which the revenues were very realized. Is 
that correct?
    Mr. Joggerst. The transaction with 360 was unusual in that 
we had had on-going discussions. We had other transactions 
where we had sold to 360, where we had purchased from 360. At 
the end of first quarter, we did have a gap in our revenue and 
revenue that we needed to recognize for the end of the quarter 
and I was aware that Tom Casey, our CEO, was having 
conversations with Greg Mafey about a potential transaction 
where Global Crossing would sell to 360 networks capacity in 
the Pacific, across the Pacific to replace a project that they 
had since canceled and Global Crossing would purchase from 360 
networks capacity across the Atlantic which Global Crossing had 
been forecasting a need for for some time. So that wheel was 
put in motion, but again, as I recall it was toward the middle 
of March, giving us a little less than 2 weeks to try and close 
this kind of a deal.
    Mr. Greenwood. Isn't it the case that the capacity was 
never realized because the company went bankrupt?
    Mr. Joggerst. That's correct.
    Mr. Greenwood. And Global Crossing booked $150 million of 
revenue in that transaction?
    Mr. Joggerst. That's correct. We had a number of 
conversations. One that I can recall directly, at the kickoff 
meeting where 360 networks was present. Our Chief Counsel, Jim 
Gorton made a statement, stood up and said he was against the 
deal in the presence of 360 networks because of their financial 
instability.
    Mr. Greenwood. Do you believe that that transaction was 
done fundamentally, given the fact that Mr. Gorton recommended 
against it, given the impending bankruptcy, given the fact in 
retrospect that he never got the capacity that that was done 
fundamentally to boost revenues in order to convince investors 
that the company was in better shape than it was. Is that a 
fair statement?
    Mr. Joggerst. It's a partially fair statement. The only 
caveat I would add is there was a true business need at the 
time for Global Crossing to have additional trans-Atlantic 
capacity. To get it from that company that had dire financial 
needs in a very accelerated timeframe, those factors were done 
just in order to reach the revenue targets. That's correct.
    Mr. Greenwood. Mr. Olofson, in your opening statement, you 
made reference to the fact that you believe 13 out of 18 
transactions were questionable. Will you elaborate about that, 
please?
    Mr. Olofson. Well, what I was referring to was in the 
second quarter of 2001, 13 of the largest, of the 18 largest 
IRU transactions that are shown on the sales funnel had 
exchanges of virtually exactly the same or similar amounts of 
cash. And that just--apparently they were done within the last 
day or two of the quarter and----
    Mr. Greenwood. So what's your interpretation of why the 
companies did that?
    Mr. Olofson. Well, I think again, I think they were trying 
to probably meet their revenue targets and----
    Mr. Greenwood. Was there a business justification for those 
transactions?
    Mr. Olofson. That I don't know. I'm not qualified to answer 
that because I really don't know what was on the other side of 
those transactions. I don't know what the company acquired. I 
do seem to recall that in some cases the capacity may not have 
been defined, that it was more in the nature of a credit and I 
think Mr. Joggerst mentioned the FLAG transactions. My 
recollection is FLAG booked that s some kind of deferred 
credit, so it wasn't really defined at the time. So I really 
can't answer this.
    Mr. Greenwood. Were other people in the company complaining 
to you that these transactions didn't seem to quote, as you 
said, smell right?
    Mr. Olofson. Yes.
    Mr. Greenwood. Can you elaborate on that?
    Mr. Olofson. Well, I mean there were a number of people in 
the Beverly Hills office. We weren't doing the accounting for 
these transactions any longer. It was being done in New Jersey, 
but a number of the analysts were working on parts of analysis 
and some of the statements and footnotes and stuff that went in 
the 10Q and people were becoming more and more uneasy, wondered 
if there were any rules surrounding the accounting for these 
types of transactions any longer because originally when we 
just sold capacity, we didn't swap it, we had some pretty hard 
and fast rules. And it didn't seem like those rules applied any 
longer.
    Mr. Greenwood. My time has expired. I just want to ask you 
one question, Mr. Olofson and then I'll have some other 
questions the second round. Why do you believe you were fired?
    Mr. Olofson. I'm sorry?
    Mr. Greenwood. Why do you think you were fired?
    Mr. Olofson. I think I was fired because I raised these 
concerns. As I said in my opening remarks, I raised them in 
June and I did it again in the letter. I really was working 
within the system. I mean I wasn't out there blowing the 
whistle, but I do think that there's obviously enough concern 
and once and probably maybe the bankruptcy became imminent. I 
got notified the end of December that I was fired retroactively 
until the end of November.
    Mr. Greenwood. My time has expired. The Chair recognizes 
the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Deutsch.
    Mr. Deutsch. Thank you. Mr. Joggerst, I wanted to focus on 
a couple of the responses to the chairman and I have a series 
of questions after that, but if I heard you correctly, some of 
us made comments in our opening statements that at least from 
our perspective the swaps didn't have a business purpose. And 
the analogy, I think Mr. Olofson used very well, the red truck/
blue truck analogy.
    I mean would your position be totally opposite that, that 
these, at least in your case, in the sort of the hindsight of 
time, all the transactions had business purposes?
    Mr. Joggerst. It was my perspective for the transactions 
that I was more closely involved with that there were business 
reasons for that. We needed additional capacity across the 
Atlantic. We needed additional capacity in the North American 
network. We had no presence in the Indian Ocean and certain 
parts of the world. And again, it was my perspective, I still 
believed, that Global Crossing was still growing our global 
network and that we would, in fact, be one of the survivors and 
we needed the network capacity reaching places where we didn't 
currently have it in order to fulfill that promise.
    Now my caveat would be is from a sales perspective, all of 
that made perfect sense. If the company didn't have capital 
sufficient to integrate those network resources that we were 
purchasing into the overall network to create a more robust, 
seamless, all reaching network, then, in fact, I don't believe 
that those transactions were really, the business purpose was 
going to be fulfilled.
    Mr. Deutsch. If I could focus a little bit, I understand 
you don't have capacity across the Pacific in certain companies 
and you do a swap to get that. But my understanding at this 
point is you were swapping basically inside the United States 
in areas you already had capacity and that you were doing the 
blue truck/green truck situation. I mean you're not personally 
involved in any of those?
    Mr. Joggerst. I'm not aware of anything that was actually 
just a blue truck/green truck kind of transaction. I will give 
you an example that would be in an undersea cable environment 
where that kind of a transaction might make sense. For example, 
one of the things the network engineer and my customers, 
wholesale customers require would be geographic or physical 
diversity, so in fact, if I had a facility between New York and 
London on one route and I needed to create another physically 
diverse path, one way of doing that might be to acquire that 
from another wholesale provider. That's just an example.
    I don't know, I can't point to any examples specifically 
where there was just a pure exchange of exact same assets, no.
    Mr. Deutsch. It wouldn't be exact same, but assets that you 
didn't need which is really the question. If it's assets that 
you need, that's one thing; if it's assets that you don't need, 
that you're doing it to create a transaction----
    Mr. Joggerst. I think that they were assets that we were 
purchasing that from my perspective, we needed in the long run. 
They weren't assets that we needed immediately, that we needed 
to close these deals in a very compressed timeframe, very 
accelerated timeframe, but I can't think of any transaction 
that I'm aware of that we bought something that really, that 
there was absolutely never any purpose for.
    I will confirm that clearly there was dissension within the 
company. There were some people who did not hold that belief.
    Mr. Deutsch. You told the staff that in the second and 
third quarters of 2001 you thought the revenue targets were 
unreasonable given the current industry conditions. What were 
those conditions at that time?
    Mr. Joggerst. Prices were dropping. I had a concern that 
thee were--one of the reasons why Global Crossing continued to 
have some success quarter over quarter is we implemented new 
systems to different parts of the world, opening up new 
markets, that we would go to our existing customers. For 
example, if we had an existing customer on trans-Atlantic 
segments, we could now go back, we could come in a couple of 
quarters later and offer capacity into Latin America, then into 
Asia. There were no more regions that we were opening up, so I 
was concerned that in order to--any large deals that were on 
the table, they would have to come from a very large 
outsourcing kind of arrangement of a potential, total outsource 
of one of our customers' networks.
    Mr. Deutsch. Were your revenue goals reduced in 2001?
    Mr. Joggerst. Pardon me?
    Mr. Deutsch. Your revenue goals, were they reduced in 2001?
    Mr. Joggerst. My revenue goals were never reduced in 2001 
from an IRU perspective. In fact, if you consider that we 
looked at--as I recall, there was $2 billion in revenue for 
2001, roughly $500 million per quarter. The first quarter we 
were asked to come up with $550 million; the second quarter, 
$650 million. So we were on a trajectory that would exceed even 
what I thought was an exorbitant target in the first place of 
$2 billion for IRUs.
    Mr. Deutsch. If you could look at Tab 21 which is a July 
14, 2001 e-mail. I'm sorry, Tab 20. It's a July 14, 2001 e-mail 
from Tom Casey to you. In it he says ``the carrier group is 
missing its numbers badly, is forecasting that the second half 
of the year would get even worse.'' But Mr. Casey tells you 
that he does not and I'll quote ``not want to hear about how 
your part of the business is just going to continue to erode. 
When we meet next week, I want to know what you guys are going 
to do to turn around starting immediately.'' Is that the kind 
of pressure that you were talking about?
    Mr. Joggerst. Yes, this is indicative of the kind of 
pressure that I'm talking about.
    Mr. Deutsch. And you pressured your team to meet these 
unrealistic numbers as well?
    Mr. Joggerst. What I did is we looked at ways of really 
engaging upper management, frankly, rather than just apply 
pressure to the sales force directly. What we did is say is 
there any way that we could achieve some large outsourcing 
deals with the help and support of senior management such as 
Tom Casey, Gary Winnick and others and they had oftentimes been 
involved in the process themselves. So rather than just apply 
pressure downward, frankly, my strategy with Mr. Casey and 
others would be to engage them to be part of the solution 
rather than just part of the problem.
    Mr. Deutsch. Are you familiar with the term outscoping?
    Mr. Joggerst. Yes, I am.
    Mr. Deutsch. What does it mean?
    Mr. Joggerst. Outscoping is when there's a customer that 
we're working with and there are--where we increase the size of 
the deal that we're doing with them and they increase the size 
of the deal they're doing with us and typically that happened a 
couple of times that I can recall at the end of the quarter, 
particularly with FLAG and with Cable and Wireless.
    Mr. Deutsch. And the purpose of it would be to?
    Mr. Joggerst. To meet revenue numbers for the quarter.
    Mr. Deutsch. I mean isn't that just tying to our whole 
premise of not having a business purpose? I mean you're just 
moving the numbers up to get to those revenue numbers?
    Mr. Joggerst. I understand your point that the deals were 
made larger, but I don't agree that there was absolutely no 
business purpose ever for those assets.
    Mr. Deutsch. Throughout 2001, Global Crossing increased the 
frequency and size of the reciprocal transaction. It appears 
that it was getting harder for the network people to identify 
assets to purchase. On March 9, for example, Robin Wright wrote 
you and said they didn't have a great deal of enthusiastic 
support for purchasing additional assets. This e-mail is in Tab 
4.
    Is that correct?
    Mr. Joggerst. Yes. As I recall, the network folks were 
becoming alarmed that they didn't have the resources to 
negotiate deals, where they were actually purchasing capacity 
and there were a number of people in the network organization 
that were in support of these kind of purchases. That's 
correct.
    Mr. Deutsch. If you could take a look at Tab 9. This is on 
March 28, 2001. Michael Coghill, a network engineer, tells his 
boss that he can't justify $15 million in U.S. West and now 
sales wants $60 million, which he in good conscious and I'll 
quote, ``cannot pretend to develop a business case that 
justifies that transaction.''
    You just overrode objections like this and particularly, I 
mean, did you?
    Mr. Joggerst. Again, my issue was to work with the sales 
team to identify targets for things for us to sell. Mr. Coghill 
didn't report to me, nor did Mr. Dawson, and you know and they 
were--this looks to me like Mr. Coghill was escalating his 
concern to Mr. Dawson.
    That certainly is his right and again, I was aware at the 
time that not everyone in the network organization were 
enthusiastically supporting these transactions.
    Mr. Deutsch. So in this case, I mean in a sense, you didn't 
care what you were buying, you just cared what you were 
selling?
    Mr. Joggerst. My focus was--the way most of these 
reciprocal transactions took place is my sales force which is 
really one of the largest, most well equipped carrier sales 
forces in the world, we knew what our customers. We knew where 
our network was going in the future and what their requirements 
might be. Increasingly, over--particularly in 2001, those 
customers came back to us and said yes, we'd be happy to buy 
from Global Crossing, but you have to buy something from us. I 
mean at that point it was the role of the sales person to make 
sure that we got the appropriate operations people involved to 
go through what it was that that company was proposing to sell 
to us.
    Mr. Deutsch. Let me just ask one final question. If you can 
refer to Tab 32 which includes a September 26 e-mail from you 
to among others, Robin Wright, you state that ``the network 
people have put out a string of e-mails that will kill a number 
of deals. These deals represent $250 million of our attempt to 
get $675 million in revenue. Someone needs to fix this. I don't 
have time.'' Is this a good representation, really, of the----
    Mr. Joggerst. I'm sorry, what tab was that?
    Mr. Deutsch. 32. 31, I'm sorry, 31. 31 on page 2. On the 
top.
    Mr. Joggerst. Yes, I see it. This is essentially me saying 
that, you know, particularly this was the end of third quarter 
and a number of the deals that are mentioned there, we didn't 
do with Dishnet or with Tycom, but effectively, if the network 
people didn't want to buy capacity, that was fine with me. I 
didn't have time to try and cheerlead or facilitate them 
acquiring something. That really wasn't my purpose. If they 
didn't want to buy it, don't buy it. If we didn't do the deals, 
then don't do the deals. They would have to really be 
accountable to their upper management.
    Mr. Deutsch. But if they didn't buy it, you couldn't sell 
it.
    Mr. Joggerst. I am absolutely convinced that that's the 
truth.
    Mr. Deutsch. So that's really that whole swap----
    Mr. Joggerst. Absolutely.
    Mr. Deutsch. Thank you.
    Mr. Greenwood. I'll recognize the chairman, Mr. Tauzin in a 
second, but Mr. Joggerst, let's go back to Tab 9 for a second 
because I can't help but feel that you should have covered that 
a little bit.
    I'm going to read this to you. It says ``We are now being 
asked to provide business cases to support this transaction. 
This discussion began with U.S. West at $15 million which we 
could not find justification for, let alone $60 million. We 
will be factual in our estimation of the value of usefulness of 
these assets, but in good conscience, cannot pretend to develop 
a business case that justifies this transaction, but rather one 
that will show our economic risk.''
    So what this guy is saying is we didn't need the $15 
million, we couldn't figure out how to justify that on the 
basis of capacity. Now you want to quadruple it to $60 million 
and you're asking us to justify $60 million when we couldn't 
justify $15 million and the only thing they could honestly do 
in good conscience is say this is stupid. Isn't that right?
    Mr. Joggerst. That would be my interpretation of this e-
mail as well.
    Mr. Greenwood. Let's get straight at it here. The Chair 
recognizes the full committee chairman, Mr. Tauzin.
    Chairman Tauzin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, first of all, let 
me cite for our witnesses a document which you don't have in 
front of you. It's actually a news story from The Rocky 
Mountain News dated 9/11/02 referring to a witness who will 
appear in the next panel, Lynn Turner, I'm sorry, not Lynn 
Turner, but Robin Wright. It refers to Lynn Turner, the former 
top accountant for the Securities and Exchange Commission in 
the last Administration. Lynn Turner is now working for 
Colorado State University Center for Quality Financial 
Reporting indicating at least in Lynn Turner's opinion that the 
memo prepared by Robin Wright of Global Crossing who will 
testify in the next panel explaining to co-workers what needed 
to be done for Qwest to book revenues quickly ends up being the 
smoking gun in this case because it details exactly the 
problem. But we have a lot of documents that some of you are 
aware of that are sort of the paper trail leading to this 
conclusion that indeed this memo may be the smoking gun, if you 
will. And I want to refer them to you and get your thoughts on 
them.
    First of all, Ms. Szeliga, we can go all the way back to 
the year 2000 when you first wrote the note to David Walsh 
which we have at Tab 26 in the book. This was Robin Wright, I'm 
sorry. I've got the wrong Robin. We can go back to that date in 
any effect we'll visit with her tomorrow, in the second panel 
rather, where she writes about being concerned with the IRU 
number. ``I sent the note below to Gary and John and while I 
think they understand, I think the IRU number, indefeasible 
rights of use number, ends up being the plug number in order to 
meet the street's expectations.''
    Do you want to tell me what the business of plug numbers to 
meet street expectations are all about?
    Mr. Joggerst. I can comment. I think I've made the comment 
to Chairman Greenwood in that again, as I mentioned at Global 
Crossing it was unacceptable to not make the number, so the 
IRUs were really what we could do, a deal that could be done 
quickly for a large dollar amount, a contract that could be 
signed, executed quickly and then you could achieve that goal.
    Chairman Tauzin. So literally the plug number is a number 
you've got to meet to meet those Wall Street expectations, 
because if you don't meet them there are some pretty bad 
consequences to the company and these IRU trades was an easy 
way to plug those numbers in and meet those expectations. Is 
that essentially it?
    Mr. Joggerst. What they were was a one-time transaction 
where you receive a bunch of cash up front. The alternate would 
be to sign up a number of deals that would pay over on a 
monthly basis, say 3 or 4 or 5 years, but if you sign that day, 
say on the 2 weeks before the end of the quarter, even though 
you may have a large commitment for hundreds of millions of 
dollars, you wouldn't see that.
    Chairman Tauzin. It wouldn't be a plug number.
    Mr. Joggerst. That's correct.
    Chairman Tauzin. You wouldn't meet the expectations. In 
fact, we have a number of confidential members, one at Tab 30 
and one at Tab 27 that sort of tell the story about what 
happens when a company is anxious to meet those plug numbers 
with deals that might not otherwise be very justifiable.
    At Tab 27 we see a note from Wes Winkler to Joe Becchi 
talking about a deal with Velocita and I quote, ``I have been 
charged with the daunting task of figuring out how to sell the 
junk we obtained over the past few quarters of reciprocal 
deals.''
    And if you look at Tab 30 you'll see Joey Wong of Global 
Crossing writing to someone named Robert and others, you see 
the address on top, ``the problem with the other deals is that 
sales folks don't know exactly what they're getting and the 
product guys haven't figured out what to do with these assets 
and GNO buckets, so this business guy is stuck since there is 
no direction given. What makes it worse is that a lot of the 
assets we're getting, I don't think we can justify them.'' He 
goes on to say ``I wish this company just come clean with the 
street--'' that's Wall Street, right? ``Regarding our guidance. 
This swap crap is going to kill us in the long run and I'm 
personally very fed up with this business case garbage.''
    It gets even stronger when we go all the way to the letter 
that was written by someone named Michael. We don't know who 
that is. That's an anonymous letter on Tab 46. You'll all turn 
to it.
    And then Ms. Szeliga, I want to talk to you about an 
incredible memo that follows on 43, so you might get ready for 
it.
    But at Tab 46 we see a letter, anonymously written to 
someone named Mr. Harad whom the letter writer thought was on 
the board of Qwest Communications. It was sent to him and he 
forwarded it to Philip Anschutz, the chairman of the board, who 
obviously received it. It's a remarkable letter. It's coming 
now in April 2002. It begins by asking that Joe Nacchio and 
Drake Tempest be fired for cause and the letter writer says 
Qwest has violated securities laws, SEC rules, some state 
commission rules. It says ``Joe and Drake did not order 
specifically subordinates to do unethical acts or illegal acts, 
however they set goals and targets'' can I add editorially 
``plug numbers?'' ``That were impossible to obtain without 
engaging in unethical or illegal acts. Basically, subordinates 
were given the choice, Mr. Olofson, of attaining these targets 
or being fired. Unfortunately, at least a dozen Qwest employees 
chose to break the law rather than face dismissal. The SEC is 
searching in some of the right places where some of these 
violations occurred. The people involved were at least smart 
enough to do most things orally and left a very sparse written 
trail. It will either take the SEC getting lucky or employees 
breaking ranks in order for the SEC to uncover the smoking 
guns.''
    The last paragraph this is ``consider your own liability. 
This letter will serve notice on you that illegal things were 
done at Qwest and finally concludes what I'm assuming that you 
learned something from Enron.'' This letter occurs after the 
Enron hearing.
    So the letter indicates that all this stuff is still going 
on. Qwest hadn't come clean with the Street and that employees 
were still being threatened with being fired or breaking the 
law.
    The most important document I want you folks to discuss 
with me in the time we have is a memo written from one former 
audit chairman at Qwest, Audit Committee chairman to then 
current chairman, from Peter Hellman to Tom Stevens. It's at 
Tab 43 and I want to quote it to you and I want to get your 
comments, particularly, Ms. Szeliga and Mr. Joggerst and Mr. 
Olofson.
    It raises the question about how this stuff happens and 
what might be going on and it states an opinion as to what may 
have been wrong. It says ``not that Joe''--I assume that's Joe 
Nacchio--``is not saying the right things'' and then in 
parentheses ``make the numbers and do it the right way, but the 
line people including the divisional CFOs are only hearing make 
the numbers. In my opinion there are well-known consequences 
for not making the numbers.'' Perhaps getting fired for the 
company not making the Wall Street projections, the plug 
numbers being there, the stock going down? We can imagine all 
the known consequences.
    But here's the kicker ``but no clear consequences for 
cutting corners.''
    Further on, ``Finance people in the business unit were 
obscuring the appropriate facts both from AA and Robin to whom 
they directly report. As far as I can determine there were no 
consequences for their actions.''
    Now it appears to me what the Audit Committee, former Audit 
Committee chairman is telling the new Audit Committee chairman 
at Qwest is look, maybe Joe's not saying do anything wrong to 
make the numbers, but all the people are hearing is make the 
numbers. And there are terrible consequences if you don't. But 
there aren't any real evident consequences if you do the wrong 
thing to make the numbers.
    Talk to me a bit about that. Was that the culture by which 
Qwest and Global Crossing found themselves in the mess they now 
find themselves?
    Ms. Szeliga. I don't recall it being the culture that there 
were no consequences for not following process at Qwest. I 
think the record shows that I saw process as being very 
important and there were a number of instances when I 
personally spoke with folks who I thought hadn't appropriately 
followed the policies and procedures we had in place. We 
reminded them of those either orally or in writing on different 
occasions.
    Chairman Tauzin. Give me an example.
    Ms. Szeliga. For example, I don't recall the specific 
reason, but I received from my controller a concern that said I 
think we need to remind folks of some processes and I can't 
remember what the genesis of his concern was specifically, but 
I left a voice mail to a number of folks in our company----
    Chairman Tauzin. Did anybody get fired for doing the wrong 
thing, to make the numbers?
    Ms. Szeliga. I wasn't aware at the time that I left this 
voice mail I'm referring to that anybody had done anything 
wrong, but rather the controller was acting out of a concern 
that controls be followed, trying to be proactive.
    Chairman Tauzin. You know, we found no memos from anyone 
saying don't you dare make the numbers by breaking the laws or 
breaking the rules or by hiding the true nature of one of these 
deals. We didn't find any memos that said that. We found a lot 
of memos of people saying we've got problems with these deals 
and we've got troubles with them. We got conversations, we have 
interviews that say--Mr. Joggerst, you know what I'm talking 
about. There were a lot of people saying there's something 
wrong with this and we shouldn't be doing it, but there were 
also memos saying you're going to get fired if you complain. Is 
that right?
    Mr. Joggerst. I did have the impression, I think I 
mentioned earlier that not meeting the number was absolutely 
unacceptable at Global Crossing. We had to make the quarterly 
number. Whether people would get fired, get shuffled aside, 
given a nonimportant task, I mean I'm not sure what the 
specific penalties might be, but I do contrast it with the 
early days of Global Crossing when there was much more of a 
collegial atmosphere where deals, pros and cons were discussed 
openly and----
    Chairman Tauzin. Something changed, right?
    Mr. Joggerst. And something changed.
    Chairman Tauzin. We learned about the office of the 
chairman when we did our Enron hearings. It's a special kind of 
office. What was it composed of at Global Crossing?
    Mr. Joggerst. The office of the chairman included Gary 
Winnick, Lod Cook, the secretary was Sherri Cook, secretary of 
the company and the CEO, the point in time that we're talking 
about is Tom Casey.
    Chairman Tauzin. And Tom Casey and Gary Winnick were very 
close?
    Mr. Joggerst. It's my understanding that they had known 
each other for some time. Tom joined Global Crossing as our 
head of mergers and acquisitions from Merrill Lynch in London 
and it was generally thought that they were personal friends.
    Chairman Tauzin. If I told something to Tom Casey, was it 
generally assumed in the corporation, Gary Winnick would know 
it?
    Mr. Joggerst. That was absolutely my assumption.
    Chairman Tauzin. They shared everything.
    Mr. Joggerst. That would be my assumption, absolutely.
    Chairman Tauzin. I want to turn to some of the consequences 
of things going wrong and I've got some of your notes, Ms. 
Szeliga, we find them at Tab 87, if you want to refer to them.
    This takes us back to June 20 or so of the year 2001. What 
has just happened is that Morgan Stanley has dropped a 
bombshell. Their analysts have said that Qwest has bloated 
income after its merger with U.S. West and Nacchio was furious. 
There are meetings and discussions about it. These are notes of 
your meetings, apparently, and this is strategy to handle the 
issue.
    I take you down to number 4, and it says ``quietly close 
Morgan Stanley out of company.'' Are those your notes?
    Ms. Szeliga. This is my handwriting, that's correct.
    Chairman Tauzin. So these are your notes, is that right?
    Ms. Szeliga. Yes sir.
    Chairman Tauzin. So is it correct that this is the kind of 
way the company reacted to Morgan Stanley criticizing it for 
bloating income?
    Ms. Szeliga. This is one of the ways that the company 
reacted.
    Chairman Tauzin. Did you, in fact, follow up and try to 
close Morgan Stanley out of the company?
    Ms. Szeliga. I didn't have the personal responsibility or 
the authority to close Morgan Stanley out of our company, but 
Morgan Stanley was no longer employed after the notes came out 
by the company to do significant banking transactions.
    Chairman Tauzin. Was this your idea or are you writing a 
note about somebody else's idea of the meeting?
    Ms. Szeliga. I don't recall specifically writing it, but I 
do believe this was some notes taken following conversations 
that were had with senior executives in a company as they----
    Chairman Tauzin. Give me some names of people who were 
there?
    Ms. Szeliga. A number of folks had conversations after the 
Morgan Stanley note came out including Joseph Nacchio, our CEO; 
Afshin Mohebbi, our COO; Drake Tempest, our general counsel. It 
would be not uncommon for me to participate in those 
conversations where the company was dealing with a very 
significant issue and we would get together and discuss----
    Chairman Tauzin. And this note arose from that discussion. 
You don't know who came up with the idea to close Morgan 
Stanley out?
    Ms. Szeliga. I'm sorry to say I don't exactly remember 
writing the note, but the tone of what I'm saying in this----
    Chairman Tauzin. Do you remember who said that?
    Ms. Szeliga. I know Joe Nacchio was very angry at Morgan 
Stanley and he expressed it publicly on the call that we had 
following the notes that were issued by Morgan Stanley 
analysts.
    Chairman Tauzin. You see where I'm getting at. I mean when 
we read a memo from one Audit Committee chairman to another 
saying look, we got a problem here, this business of just 
meeting the numbers, making the numbers, everybody getting that 
message, having to do it or face the consequences and anybody 
who gets in the way gets rolled, including an investment house 
that criticized the company. Let just run out the company. 
We're not going to do business with them any more. That's the 
culture I'm asking about. If that culture--Mr. Joggerst, if the 
culture of the company changed, and that became the new culture 
of the company, is that not maybe the underlying reason so many 
people may have according to that memo violated rules and law?
    Mr. Joggerst. It is my belief that the pressure to make the 
numbers became really the overriding factor in the company at 
that time. The pressure was uncomfortable. I can tell you 
myself, I remember the sales people literally did not sleep for 
several nights toward the end of a quarter, receiving phone 
calls. I can recall in the case of the 630 Network's deal 
receiving many phone calls, including one from Tom Casey about 
11:35 the night before, that Saturday night before the first 
quarter books closed or before the quarter closed, making sure 
that the transaction with 360 Network was done.
    Chairman Tauzin. And the pressure was coming from whom in 
these cases?
    Mr. Joggerst. The pressure in my understanding was coming 
from the office of the chairman which included the individuals 
that I mentioned. The specific conversations that I had were 
largely with Tom Casey.
    Chairman Tauzin. Although it's rather obvious, and I know 
my time is up, Mr. Chairman, but all of this was designed to 
meet the numbers, to keep the stock prices high so that those 
who enjoyed stock ownership or options in the company might 
profit, is that right?
    Mr. Joggerst. That is my understanding and again, I think 
every company's mission statement says that they're there to 
increase shareholder value. What I didn't understand at the 
time was the financial situation that the company was in and 
what I've since seen is most potentially the financia